Supplements the debate/discussion thread
- Thread starter Freefaller
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Added 3g of Beta-Alanine & 2g of Taurine to my V-max today. Had some mild face tingling on the way there but nothing major.
Vascularity in my shoulders was good today though it was a 'push' workout and I am cutting so to be expected. I think NO supps aren't as effective when carb/glycogen depleted in regards to pump but for energy & focus they're still good.
Looking foward to mixing my own with some AAKG & Citrulline Malate
Vascularity in my shoulders was good today though it was a 'push' workout and I am cutting so to be expected. I think NO supps aren't as effective when carb/glycogen depleted in regards to pump but for energy & focus they're still good.
Looking foward to mixing my own with some AAKG & Citrulline Malate
I've stopped the beta alanine and creatine at the moment due to having a couple of days off letting my elbows heal up a bit. I developed a twitch in my face especially under my right eye which I had pretty constantly throughout the day but it's stopped since I stopped the BA. Also I'm not sure but I think it made me a little anxious.
I'll probably try it again but from the initial run I can't recommend it.
I'll probably try it again but from the initial run I can't recommend it.
Associate
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What does beta-alanine do?
Are you feeling the effects of taurine? I understand it's an amino acid and can provide similar effects to creatine (allowing the muscle to hold more water) - but is it that noticeable?
Could be that also, until recently I've been getting little sleep and been working hard
BA - Helps to reduce fatigue/lactate build up so can allow you to work harder for longer.
Taurine - I have read it does have properties similar to creatine but no where near as strong. I'm currently cutting so haven't really noticed any of this though as it's a neuro-inhibiter you get an amazing nights sleep. It's very strange since using it I wake up an it feels like 4.30am but it's barely past 12:30. Once you're body has had enough rest you can't sleep/it's very hard to! The fact my blinds are **** probaly doesn't help!
Unfortunatley I can't comment on the water retention as I'll be bulking again soon and loading creatine so I'm going to fill right back out so can't really put specific points down to specific supps.
Why not try it yourself? It's reasonably cheap.
Associate
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I've been thinking about trying it, just thought i'd get your take on it
I've recently started CLA and tribulus, so will wait a bit before i introduce another/a different supplement so i can see what use these ones are.
Associate
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How much beta alanine are people taking throughout the day to be getting the twitching (which is an indicator of it actually 'working', right?)
I take these:
http://www.myprotein.co.uk/capsules-tablets-softgels/sports-supplements/beta-alanine_/
2 in the morning, 2 pre-wo (about half an hour before, this is with caffeine and mega cissus at the moment) and I don't feel hardly anything... I then take 2 post work-out.
2 of those tabs contain 3gs apparently so am I missing something?
I take these:
http://www.myprotein.co.uk/capsules-tablets-softgels/sports-supplements/beta-alanine_/
2 in the morning, 2 pre-wo (about half an hour before, this is with caffeine and mega cissus at the moment) and I don't feel hardly anything... I then take 2 post work-out.
2 of those tabs contain 3gs apparently so am I missing something?
I've been thinking about trying it, just thought i'd get your take on it
I think I can comment on Taurine and dehydration. Got to the workshops today and felt like right arse. Probaly a combination of hunger from cutting but also I've not been urinating as much as normal whilst drinking the same amounts of water so was a little dehydrated. Quite dangerous as I wasn't thirsty either though a litre of water seems to have perked me up.
It's quite a strange powder. Similar to lumpy sugar/snow.
The tingling is not a sign of it working, some people get it some dont.
When I first started 2.5g gave me really uncomfortable tingling this is the dose I take twice a day, but after a few doses the tingling dropped to almost nothing.
Associate
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Have been on tribulus from myprotein for a few weeks now and i have to say i'm feeling the effects. increased sex drive (not good ><) and my temper is noticeably thinner. i cant say for sure what its doing to my muscles but i seem to be retaining muscle quite well through this cut im on at the moment. it was fairly cheap and was on sale at the time and glad i purchased it! will be introducing this my routine from now on for sure, especially when im doing some hypertrophy based training.
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I'm surprised you got that effect from tribulus tbh :/ Unless you're in your 40s in which case it is quite plausible. 
Trib needs to be high in protodioscin otherwise it isn't effective and there are so many different types of trib out there. Some reasearch seems to suggest that not only does the Tribulus need to be Bulgarian but the part of the plant is also crucial, fruit and roots are no good it needs to be from the leaf.
*** Tribulus Terrestris: Bulgarian v The Rest of the World ***
By Dean Farley of Tierra Supplements
The theory behind Tribulus Terrestris' effects is its ability to trigger the body into releasing luteinizing hormone (LH), which in turn stimulates development of the interstitial cells of the testes that secrete the hormone testosterone.
The active constituents of tribulus are steroidal saponins of two types; furostanols and spirostanols. Studies suggest the furostanol steroidal saponins are not bio-active and must be first converted to spirostanols to become so. The saponin content will vary depending upon the identity of the plant, the source of saponin within the plant (e.g. seed, fruit, and leaves) and the conditions under which the plant is grown. The method of extraction will also affect the concentration of saponins. Using a special method of harvesting and pharmaceutical preparation, Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris has a very high concentration of steroidal saponins, hence it's higher cost. The phytochemistry of Chinese and Indian Tribulus is considerably different from that of the Bulgarian, also Chinese and Indian Tribulus is made from a different part of the plant.
There are three groups of active phytochemicals in Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris:
1. Dioscin, protodioscin, diosgenin, etc. These have an effect on sexual performance and may treat various sexual disorders, sexual energy level and strength by increasing the percentage of free testosterone level for men, and affects pregnenolone, progesterone, oestrogen, etc.
2. Sterols - betasitosterols, stigma, etc, which protect the prostate from swelling and in combination with the X steroidal saponins (third group listed below), protects the prostate from cancer.
3. Proprietary steroidal saponins currently referred to as X steroidal saponins. These affect the immune system and have been demonstrated to possess anti-bacterial and anti-viral (particularly anti-herpes) effects.
Chinese and Indian Tribulus Terrestris does not have the same pharmacological and physiological functions as Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris. Theirs is used primarily as a diuretic and to treat kidney stones. At best, Indian and Chinese Tribulus Terrestris have but a trace of group 1, and contain virtually no X steroidal saponins. This could go some way to explaining the radical difference some people experience in the effects of Tribulus Terrestris from different sources, borne out by many posts on MuscleTalk with people disappointed with the results of non-Bulgarian Tribulus.
** Source of the following information: Townsend Letter for doctors and patients; Dec.2004 Kerry Bone
Quality Issues
Two studies have highlighted that most Tribulus products on the market are quite different from the Bulgarian extract (TLSE). The first study, conducted in the US, found that the level of protodioscin varied substantially with the plant part (leaf, stem or fruit) and origin (Bulgaria, India or China) of the Tribulus. Only leaf from Bulgaria was high in protodioscin. Analysis of products selected from the US market found deficiencies of protodioscin in the majority. The second study from Australia produced similar results. An Eastern European variety of Tribulus (from Slovakia) contained high levels of protodioscin in the leaf but none in the fruit. Leaf from Australia and India did not contain protodioscin. The principle of phytoequivalence dictates that, if the benefits demonstrated in a clinical trial are claimed for a herbal product, then that product must closely match the one used in the clinical trial. The Bulgarian clinical trials which have shown that Tribulus boosts libido and fertility and alleviates menopausal symptoms, all used Tribulus leaf rich in protodioscin collected from Bulgaria. Therefore only similar products might reasonably be expected to have the same effects. If a Tribulus product is made from the root or fruit of the plant, or is sourced from anywhere else other than Eastern Europe, it will probably contain low levels of protodioscin and so will be quite different from the Bulgarian standardized extract. The quality of Tribulus products is best assessed by high performance liquid chromatography as used in the two studies cited above.
Trib needs to be high in protodioscin otherwise it isn't effective and there are so many different types of trib out there. Some reasearch seems to suggest that not only does the Tribulus need to be Bulgarian but the part of the plant is also crucial, fruit and roots are no good it needs to be from the leaf.*** Tribulus Terrestris: Bulgarian v The Rest of the World ***
By Dean Farley of Tierra Supplements
The theory behind Tribulus Terrestris' effects is its ability to trigger the body into releasing luteinizing hormone (LH), which in turn stimulates development of the interstitial cells of the testes that secrete the hormone testosterone.
The active constituents of tribulus are steroidal saponins of two types; furostanols and spirostanols. Studies suggest the furostanol steroidal saponins are not bio-active and must be first converted to spirostanols to become so. The saponin content will vary depending upon the identity of the plant, the source of saponin within the plant (e.g. seed, fruit, and leaves) and the conditions under which the plant is grown. The method of extraction will also affect the concentration of saponins. Using a special method of harvesting and pharmaceutical preparation, Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris has a very high concentration of steroidal saponins, hence it's higher cost. The phytochemistry of Chinese and Indian Tribulus is considerably different from that of the Bulgarian, also Chinese and Indian Tribulus is made from a different part of the plant.
There are three groups of active phytochemicals in Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris:
1. Dioscin, protodioscin, diosgenin, etc. These have an effect on sexual performance and may treat various sexual disorders, sexual energy level and strength by increasing the percentage of free testosterone level for men, and affects pregnenolone, progesterone, oestrogen, etc.
2. Sterols - betasitosterols, stigma, etc, which protect the prostate from swelling and in combination with the X steroidal saponins (third group listed below), protects the prostate from cancer.
3. Proprietary steroidal saponins currently referred to as X steroidal saponins. These affect the immune system and have been demonstrated to possess anti-bacterial and anti-viral (particularly anti-herpes) effects.
Chinese and Indian Tribulus Terrestris does not have the same pharmacological and physiological functions as Bulgarian Tribulus Terrestris. Theirs is used primarily as a diuretic and to treat kidney stones. At best, Indian and Chinese Tribulus Terrestris have but a trace of group 1, and contain virtually no X steroidal saponins. This could go some way to explaining the radical difference some people experience in the effects of Tribulus Terrestris from different sources, borne out by many posts on MuscleTalk with people disappointed with the results of non-Bulgarian Tribulus.
** Source of the following information: Townsend Letter for doctors and patients; Dec.2004 Kerry Bone
Quality Issues
Two studies have highlighted that most Tribulus products on the market are quite different from the Bulgarian extract (TLSE). The first study, conducted in the US, found that the level of protodioscin varied substantially with the plant part (leaf, stem or fruit) and origin (Bulgaria, India or China) of the Tribulus. Only leaf from Bulgaria was high in protodioscin. Analysis of products selected from the US market found deficiencies of protodioscin in the majority. The second study from Australia produced similar results. An Eastern European variety of Tribulus (from Slovakia) contained high levels of protodioscin in the leaf but none in the fruit. Leaf from Australia and India did not contain protodioscin. The principle of phytoequivalence dictates that, if the benefits demonstrated in a clinical trial are claimed for a herbal product, then that product must closely match the one used in the clinical trial. The Bulgarian clinical trials which have shown that Tribulus boosts libido and fertility and alleviates menopausal symptoms, all used Tribulus leaf rich in protodioscin collected from Bulgaria. Therefore only similar products might reasonably be expected to have the same effects. If a Tribulus product is made from the root or fruit of the plant, or is sourced from anywhere else other than Eastern Europe, it will probably contain low levels of protodioscin and so will be quite different from the Bulgarian standardized extract. The quality of Tribulus products is best assessed by high performance liquid chromatography as used in the two studies cited above.
Soldato
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I just received a delivery of pea protein isolate and it doesn't taste all that great to be honest. Anybody got any flavouring ideas that I can put in my shaker with the pea protein and ground oats, because at the moment it's making me gag even with 2 scoops of nesquik!!
Soldato
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Go savory with it, add some fried onions and bacon! lol