Supplements the debate/discussion thread

BennyC said:
Ultimately you can obtain a calorie deficit without the need for any type of cardiovascular activity. You don't need to slug away like a hamster in a wheel to burn fat.
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i don't run to burn fat, i run to improve my cardiovascular system ;)

as a result of running though i have burned fat as well as muscle, this is why i have started back on the weights to build the muscle back up.
 
unhealthy way? I want to lose fat but gain fitness long term.

my research suggests HIT etc are not sustainable long term as your body adjusts to them?

Some of the stuff thrown around in this thread is likely awesome if you are jut cutting for a few weeks but I need something which I can do long term for my fitness levels.

I don't get the healthier ways I am running a calorie deficit but eating a pretty clean diet for the most part , occasional I will have a pizza day :( (usually home made)

My calorie deficit may seem huge to you guys but I have had a constant battle with weight for pretty much my whole life I have always been a bit chubby even though I never ate ridiculous calories
 
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arknor said:
unhealthy way? I want to lose fat but gain fitness long term.

my research suggests HIT etc are not sustainable long term as your body adjusts to them?

Some of the stuff thrown around in this thread is likely awesome if you are jut cutting for a few weeks but I need something which I can do long term for my fitness levels.

I don't get the healthier ways I am running a calorie deficit but eating a pretty clean diet for the most part , occasional I will have a pizza day :( (usually home made)

My calorie deficit may seem huge to you guys but I have had a constant battle with weight for pretty much my whole life I have always been a bit chubby even though I never ate ridiculous calories
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I'm not as knowledgeable as the other guys on here but the main issue I see with your regime is the insane calorie deficit. In the short term it is bad for you as it's too much of a deficit and long term it's not sustainable. A better approach is to try and find a diet that you can stick to "from now on".

My diet is awful so I'm a massive hypocrite. I wouldn't ever advise anyone to eat the same crap as I do though :p
 
arknor said:
the trouble is weight lifters seem to want to take an easy route for fatloss because cardio hurts there gains.

anyone doing cardio is evil because they all have the same mindset
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easy ROUTE?! EASY?! I cycle a lot and I lift a lot and HONESTLY cycling is a lot easier than lifting.. easy route for fatloss lmao.. there's no EASY ROUTE..

the only easy route for fatloss is to not get fat in the first place ;)

I lift and I do cardio.. what a lot of people think is "ill eat the exact same tosh every day that got me fat and chubby in the first place but now ill run on a treadmill for 10 minutes 2 times a week and ill lose it all" no cardio doesn't = fat loss.. it burns calories but if you keep the same diet you wont get anywhere..
 
grudas said:
easy ROUTE?! EASY?! I cycle a lot and I lift a lot and HONESTLY cycling is a lot easier than lifting.. easy route for fatloss lmao.. there's no EASY ROUTE..

the only easy route for fatloss is to not get fat in the first place ;)

I lift and I do cardio.. what a lot of people think is "ill eat the exact same tosh every day that got me fat and chubby in the first place but now ill run on a treadmill for 10 minutes 2 times a week and ill lose it all" no cardio doesn't = fat loss.. it burns calories but if you keep the same diet you wont get anywhere..
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yup and you might remember me saying something around august in the cycling thread how I lost around 1 stone before I changed my diet ;);)

I was eating around 2000-2500 calories lots of pizzas , chips etc and not much nutritional foods then I swapped to a clean diet of mainly rice/sweet potatoes with tons of veg and chicken. and altered my calories to 1500-2000 sometimes I go above that so it's not like I'm restricting my self to an absolute limit.

anyway as I said I can eat 2500 calories a day and the weight slowly creeps on which according to one of those silly calculators is my calories needed just to live.

I'm probably running a 25% calorie deficit on my cycling days but on my rest days likely giving my body what it needs to recover.

I've started thinking about taking a gelbar on rides with me though more recently though so I'm not running total empty which can't be that good for me I'm guessing
 
arknor said:
right now I'm doing around 1500-2000 calories a day and barely losing weight even though I'm cycling 20 miles every 1-2 days on average. (I did 50 miles yesterday)
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right now I'm losing fat faster than I ever have so surely found something which works for me regardless of how much you guys want to laugh at it
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I've been doing this since july and it's still working why should I change because someone else doesn't agree with it
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Which is it? :confused:

arknor said:
erm my diet is fine and likely very similar to most of you weight lifters.
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I don't lift weights, I'm a cyclist.

why do you automatically assume I started cycling but never adjusted my diet to help with weight loss?
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The only person making assumptions is you.

Fat loss right NOW is my main goal but raising my fitness levels is my main long term goal and cycling will continue when I am at an uber low body fat.
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It shouldn't be. Changing to a healthier lifestyle that is sustainable should be your goal. Most people who 'diet' just go on to regain any weight loss. There are no magical shortcuts.

I am not a body builder.
I have read the stickies before when I tried that.
My way or the highway can go **** itself.
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You're getting confused. Nobody has said you shouldn't cycle.


and this is where you guys can't wrap your head around the fact I want to suffer , I want to go riding for miles and miles outside in the fresh air.
It's making it all worth it to me and something I will carry on doing likely until a very old age.

you would be amazed at the amount of old people you see out cycling and I mean really old, often I will see old couples out riding together along the river and it's something I can see my self doing in 30-40 years
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Cycling for pleasure != Cycling for fat loss.

If you enjoy it nobody is saying you shouldn't do it. But if you're doing it just to lose fat then there are more effective ways as studies have shown cardio isn't the most effective form of fat loss.

You're asking for opinions then refusing to take anything on board. If that’s going to be the way then just do your thing but stop derping about it.
 
Steedie said:
If you're eating below 2k calories on a cut, and you're exercising regularly, then you're doing it so so wrong
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i recently watched the jodie marsh bodybuilding documentary.

she's a natural lifter and she was in the gym for 9 hours a day.

and her meals mainly consisted of protein shakes or egg whites.

her diet was so bad she got trench mouth (lack of nutrients).

she was on a huge cut and she managed to do it whilst eating nothing like what i would consider a proper healthy meal.

her training regime was made up for her by a former mr olympia competitor and so was her diet.

there was a day she did binge for like 36 hours because her muscles were going flat.

they also said they had told her to eat green veg with her 5th meal of the day and she opted for salad instead of veg (why she got trench mouth) but of the 6 meals a day she had, most of them consisted of just a protein shake with some other powders thrown in like creatine and yohimbe, etc or egg whites, or what looked like oats and whey.

all her shakes and oats were made with water (not milk).

so how do you explain someone winning a BB contest whilst training for 9 hours per day and eating pretty much nothing (huge deficit)? in order to win this contest they had to drop like 10% bodyfat within 2 months.

how do you explain this routine and diet regime which was made for her by pro's?
 
Steedie said:
If you're eating below 2k calories on a cut, and you're exercising regularly, then you're doing it so so wrong
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well for the last 4 weeks
Last 4 Weeks
Avg Rides / Week 2
Avg Distance / Week 48mi
Avg Time / Week 4hr 30m

not hit a wall yet but I am hoping to double my miles a week started this week hence the 50miles on monday which obviously means I will need to up my calories quite a bit

although as said I am considering taking a few hundred calories in the form of a gel with me to drink mid ride which would roughly cover 30% of the energy I likely use on a ride.

I don't end a ride feeling completely dead and shattered though my legs just don't have the endurance to carry on and my hamstring starts to twinge ever so slightly

When I started 10miles was a struggle before my hamstring would start to ache.
now I'm able to go around 40-50miles before I get a bit of a twinge in my hamstring so my fitness levels must have improved massively and my avg BPM for the same ride I tend do to appears to have dropped by 10bpm on my last 2 rides.

my average speed has pretty much been stagnant but when I started just going 12mph was a bit of a struggle now I'm able to hit around 16mph and keep it up fairly easily.
although I'm 2-3x slower on any decent hill compared to most people but In my weight class strava is putting me in 2nd/4th place a lot so I'll assume thats more my weight being an issue than my muscles for now
 
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Psycho Sonny said:
i recently watched the jodie marsh bodybuilding documentary.

she's a natural lifter and she was in the gym for 9 hours a day.

and her meals mainly consisted of protein shakes or egg whites.

her diet was so bad she got trench mouth (lack of nutrients).

she was on a huge cut and she managed to do it whilst eating nothing like what i would consider a proper healthy meal.

her training regime was made up for her by a former mr olympia competitor and so was her diet.

there was a day she did binge for like 36 hours because her muscles were going flat.

they also said they had told her to eat green veg with her 5th meal of the day and she opted for salad instead of veg (why she got trench mouth) but of the 6 meals a day she had, most of them consisted of just a protein shake with some other powders thrown in like creatine and yohimbe, etc.

so how do you explain someone winning a BB contest whilst training for 9 hours per day and eating pretty much nothing (huge deficit)?

how do you explain this routine and diet regime was made for her by pro's?
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I explain that by it being mostly complete balls made up for tv.
 
You'd be surprised at how much you can eat, and still lose weight. The diet I've put together for Wills is close to 2700 calories, yet he's losing a good 2lbs a week and is getting to the leanest he's ever been

I see it all the time, people starving themselves on next to nothing diets and not losing weight as quickly as they'd like. I stick them on a better structured diet with more food, and they instantly see results :)
 
Steedie said:
You'd be surprised at how much you can eat, and still lose weight. The diet I've put together for Wills is close to 2700 calories, yet he's losing a good 2lbs a week and is getting to the leanest he's ever been

I see it all the time, people starving themselves on next to nothing diets and not losing weight as quickly as they'd like. I stick them on a better structured diet with more food, and they instantly see results :)
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Someone mentioned your diet thread - is that a thing? Or is it part of your training log?
 
Steedie said:
If you're eating below 2k calories on a cut, and you're exercising regularly, then you're doing it so so wrong
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Katch-macardle method says for me
2439
Estimated Weight Loss = ~ 1 Lb Per Week

I'm eating 1500-2000 a day probably nearer 2000 then 1500 on average and going over this some days like yesterday I had a packet of wine gums the big bag size oops. I think my body was craving sugar

although doubling my mileage/riding time will mean I should be
2770 calories to lose 1lb per week.

I guess I should boost my calorie intake slightly but not by a massive amount
 
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Don't listen to icecold, he knows nothing.

In fact, don't listen to anyone here - they all follow broscience...

Oh no wait... that's just me! :D :D :D

Can I suggest you start a separate thread about this, this is the supplements thread, and this is going off topic.

We have a lot of learned people on this forum that would be happy to help you myth bust or provide scientific, or even anecdotal (that is valid within reason) evidence towards certain ways of eating/training etc.... and by that I don't mean fad diets etc... just a range of pros/cons of the basic information you need to help you make the best decisions for you.

It's not just about bodybuilding that we're interested in (I'm not a bodybuilder) but sports, exercise and nutrition in general.
 
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