Supplements the debate/discussion thread

[sunama]

I just got hold of some 4-1-1 BCAAs from MyProtein. I'm not convinced that they really do anything but I thought I'd give them a try anyhow.

My god do they smell and taste rank :/

I swear by BCAA.
I drink during exercise.
I find they help will reducing muscle soreness. They definitely help in recovery but your mileage may vary.

Re Taste: I buy iBCAA, Berry blast and mix with Vimto. Taste is fine.
I havent tried the 4:1:1.

 

[FrenchTart]

I swear by BCAA.
I drink during exercise.
I find they help will reducing muscle soreness. They definitely help in recovery but your mileage may vary.

Re Taste: I buy iBCAA, Berry blast and mix with Vimto. Taste is fine.
I havent tried the 4:1:1.

Interesting to hear, thanks. I don't drink during exercise but on an average work day where I do fast paced cycling 4 times (average is 7.5 miles to work, then twice at lunch, then back home again after) followed by gym in the evening I'm hoping that supplementing a regular dose of BCAA 1-3 times per day will help my legs carry on for just a little bit longer. At the moment by the end of the week they're absolutely dead and need a proper rest day.

 

[Freefaller]

Bcaa are good for when training fasted or if you do long work outs to take mid workout.

 

[O.D.]

I use this Pre-Workout forumla for a pick me up and it works as well as anything else out there. None of those silly pump prodcuts in it which is a bonus. Thermo-Extreme

How you finding the Thermo-Extreme? I tried a variation a year or so ago and:

a) I don't think they did much
b) I didn't take them long enough / Do cardio for the effect.
c) Didn't know what I was expected.

Curious about if it's actually any good.

 

[sunama]

The main active ingredient in Thermo Extreme is caffeine.
As with most "pick me up" pre workout drinks.
Lets not forget that caffeine can be bought on the cheap from any local supermarket.
Despite knowing this I still buy pre-workout drinks

 

[Chong Warrior]

How you finding the Thermo-Extreme? I tried a variation a year or so ago and:

a) I don't think they did much
b) I didn't take them long enough / Do cardio for the effect.
c) Didn't know what I was expected.

Curious about if it's actually any good.

I've been using it for the past 2 years and I've got enough supply to last me until next year. Main reason I like it is it's cost effective and doesn't have pump products like AAKG in it that I hate.

I will point out I would no way pay the £20.99! It's regularly on sale half price for £10.50 and then I will use a 25% off code, so usually pay about £7-£8 for 120 cap tub. I only use 2-3 caps per serve so get approx 50 servings from a single tub.

Helps focus once actually in the gym after a 12 hour day at work. They do help raise body temp which I like and the combo of caffeine, chocamine & siberian ginseng gives a more sustained kick than a simple cup of coffee. Added B vitamins' a potential bonus, especailly as I don't take a multi-vitamin.

Overall against most other pre-workout options I rate this one.

I'd just like to point out I only rate this as a pre-workout, I don't rate it for what MyProtein are trying to market it as which is a fat-burner... there's no such supplement that would warrant the cost (not legal anyway)

 

[Chong Warrior]

Bcaa are good for when training fasted or if you do long work outs to take mid workout.

I've just gone back to using an intra workout drink after years of just using water. I was reading some studies (I'll try and find the links later) showing just a small amount of amino acids combined with carbs during workout can completely spare muscle from being broken down during exercise for fuel. Also this backed up the theory that pre-workout protein intake was much more important than PWO.

So I'm now having:
6g Dextrose
5g BCAA - 4:1:1
1g HMB
Sprinkle of sea salt

 

[Freefaller]

pre-workout protein intake was much more important than PWO.

I've always thought this, but then again I'm not a big fan or believer of the post work out "anabolic window" - which has been debunked anyway.

 

[Ayahuasca]

Interesting I've always took mine about 30 mins after, never tried it before I might do so this week.

 

[Somnambulist]

I either eat lunch then go to the gym after a bit if it's a day off, or if I'm at work eat something before I commute back (e.g. a tub of quark and something carb-tastic), since after normal hours there's nobody about to complain about eating in the office...

Intra-workout stuff matters more if the type of workout you're doing is more of the lengthy/endurance-y kind IIRC - someone doing a typical lifting program for 60-90mins who isn't training fasted (e.g. ate lunch before going to the gym) isn't at risk of muscle catabolism like someone doing something extremely glycogen depleting.

 

[Chiz]

I just got hold of some 4-1-1 BCAAs from MyProtein. I'm not convinced that they really do anything but I thought I'd give them a try anyhow.

Depends on what you use them for. As far as I know, scientifically they have been proven to aid endurance based activities. Bar that, if you're training for strength or mass, there isn't any concrete proof that they make a difference.

Even training in a fasted state, there's no benefit. This is going by experience as well.

They could be used to gently raise MPS throughout the day afterwards but you'd be best of with some EAAs, or even better EAAs, Leucine in a 2:1 ratio.

 

[Chiz]

Interesting I've always took mine about 30 mins after, never tried it before I might do so this week.

I believe optimally you have a 4-5 hour window really to ingest protein of some sort (ideally).

I did a bit of research as I used to follow IF, while training at 7am. I was concerned as I didn't break my fast until 12 noon but it's fine. To elevate MPS and keep it elevated, you really want to be consuming some protein (and carbs preferably) ideally within an hour and every 2-4 hours after training.

 

[FrenchTart]

Depends on what you use them for. As far as I know, scientifically they have been proven to aid endurance based activities. Bar that, if you're training for strength or mass, there isn't any concrete proof that they make a difference.

Even training in a fasted state, there's no benefit. This is going by experience as well.

They could be used to gently raise MPS throughout the day afterwards but you'd be best of with some EAAs, or even better EAAs, Leucine in a 2:1 ratio.

I'd be interested to see the research proving that they have a benefit for endurance training.

As I wrote above, I'm trying these to hopefully aid with recovery from cycling.

 

[Chiz]

I'd be interested to see the research proving that they have a benefit for endurance training.

As I wrote above, I'm trying these to hopefully aid with recovery from cycling.

Sure, cycling might be up your street. I'd use them while you're cycling to be honest. For recovery, are you taking anything else or just relying on BCAAs? I mean if you have a steak and rice or even a protein shake the BCAAs are null and void.

Let me find that research paper again.

 

[Chiz]

I'd be interested to see the research proving that they have a benefit for endurance training.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21297567

Not concrete - You really have to be glycogen depleted for this to concern you. I don't know what you're diet is like but I doubt your keto?

 

[FrenchTart]

Thanks - I'll check out that link once I'm home later.

I don't really eat something immediately after cycling (aside from part of my normal "eating stuff" routine) to recover. I probably should approach things in a more structured way I guess...

 

[Chiz]

Here's another one debunking the claim that BCAAs are essential or even beneficial for weight training.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24620007

 

[Chiz]

Thanks - I'll check out that link once I'm home later.

I don't really eat something immediately after cycling (aside from part of my normal "eating stuff" routine) to recover. I probably should approach things in a more structured way I guess...

Just sip some BCAAs throughout cycling. It won't do you any harm and could be beneficial at the end of the day

 

[IrishChr1s]

I find it interesting some of the views and opinions in this thread, lots of solid advice and nice field based opinions on supplements or dietary approaches that work or may not work for people.

My opinion on Pre/Post workout meals/supplements would be a carb protein ratio of 4:1.
Having a positive nitrogen balance is beneficial for anyone looking to gain muscle mass.

I still stand by keeping the nitrogen balance positive before and directly after training, as pre/post intake of protein/carbs has been shown beneficial when comparing intakes to morning/evening for MPS.

My daily supplements, whether i'm training or not is pure cod liver oil and vitamin D. There's some nice and very new opinions on vitamin D and its ability to increase certain exercise outcomes in verticle jumps, press up, immune response - especially those prone to upper respiratory tract infections (endurance athletes/marathon runners etc)

While these are all very capable of being incorporated into my diet via foods I find the supplement route is handier for me.

EDIT - Forgot to add

The Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition - Nutrient timing (http://www.jissn.com/content/5/1/17)

Just a few snippets from the conclusion

The addition of PRO (0.15 – 0.25 g PRO/kg/day) to
CHO at all time points, especially post-exercise, is well
tolerated and may promote greater restoration of muscle
glycogen.

Ingestion of 6 – 20 grams of EAAs and 30 – 40 grams of
high-glycemic CHO within three hours after an exercise
bout and immediately before exercise have been shown to
significantly stimulate muscle PRO synthesis.

Daily post-exercise ingestion of a CHO + PRO supplement
promotes greater increases in strength and improvements
in lean tissue and body fat % during regular
resistance training.

Milk PRO sources (e.g. whey and casein) exhibit different
kinetic digestion patterns and may subsequently differ
in their support of training adaptations.

 

[grudas]

anyone who tried gold standard whey, the double choc one! anything that tastes as good as that? I don't feel like paying £50 for 2kg!

got a 908g tub from a mate and I LOVE IT.