Poll: Syrian Chemical Weapon Attack

[The Running Man]

Yea im not convinced that anti missile defence mechanisms are all too reliable at present.

Lasers might offer something else but they will get countered too perhaps a mirror polished surface missile might help refract the beam and when it does blow they could design them to be air bursting with other delivery mechanisms that get activated once it blows. The trick is ensuring it gets over their terrain before it blows.

 

[FoxEye]

It wont be long until Anti-projectile Lasers are on the go, which should nullify everyone's greatest asset, of course it would appear to be a Western only thing for now.

That stuff is firmly in the realm of science fiction atm. Lasers aren't ready for prime time. Maybe in 20 years time

Yeah I know they did tests shooting down a drone (flown so that the weapon could be targetted in the same spot continuously). 'Only' took five mins of constant laser beam to destroy, no less But no laser will be knocking out real missiles fired in anger, any time soon. I'm confident of that.

 

[StriderX]

Yea im not convinced that anti missile defence mechanisms are all too reliable at present.

Lasers might offer something else but they will get countered too perhaps a mirror polished surface missile might help refract the beam and when it does blow they could design them to be air bursting with other delivery mechanisms that get activated once it blows. The trick is ensuring it gets over their terrain before it blows.

Air bursting would fall under Clusters surely? as an object the size of a missile is...subject to too much collateral, id imagine at least.

 

[dowie]

Did you just write that like Russia would not consider it an act of war against them?

How would the US attacking Syria be an act of war against Russia?

edit actually not quite sure what you're getting at FWIW I'm just posting regarding the previous suggestion that Russia ships could take down 64 missiles.... in reality they probably couldn't

 

[StriderX]

That stuff is firmly in the realm of science fiction atm. Lasers aren't ready for prime time. Maybe in 20 years time

Yeah I know they did tests shooting down a drone (flown so that the weapon could be targetted in the same spot continuously). 'Only' took five mins of constant laser beam to destroy, no less But no laser will be knocking out real missiles fired in anger, any time soon. I'm confident of that.

That is a drone, i am talking about fueled explosives, Israel tested a system a year or something ago and destroyed a mortar shell in like 6 seconds.

 

[StriderX]

How would the US attacking Syria be an act of war against Russia?

Well if Russia is firing at American Ordinance, its a bit awkward (from what i quoted).

 

[dowie]

Google "missile defense system ineffective". It makes interesting reading.

Lots of researchers/academics openly stating that missile defense systems are expensive, unreliable, and largely unproven.

yup

like the patriot missiles vs Scuds thing in GW1 wasn't anywhere near as effective as the media tried portraying at the time - at best it had some PR effect - reassure the Israeli population etc...

 

[FoxEye]

That is a drone, i am talking about fueled explosives, Israel tested a system a year or something ago and destroyed a mortar shell in like 6 seconds.

The joint US/Israeli laser defense system was discontinued in 2005 apparently. But you're right, they did claim to have intercepted mortar salvos.

in 2005, the U.S. and Israel decided to discontinue developing the THEL after spending over $300 million. The decision came as a result of "its bulkiness, high costs and poor anticipated results on the battlefield."

That's wiki, but here's a NYT article too.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/30/world/middleeast/30laser.html?_r=0

 

[StriderX]

The joint US/Israeli laser defense system was discontinued in 2005 apparently. But you're right, they did claim to have intercepted mortar salvos.



That's wiki, but here's a NYT article too.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/30/world/middleeast/30laser.html?_r=0

Oh well, disregard it then.

 

[Xordium]

Wow, if only I'd know we had so many missile experts on here I would have asked here a few months back for some help with my Kalman filters. That is assuming people know what they are on about and not just reciting wikipedia again.

 

[FoxEye]

Wow, if only I'd know we had so many missile experts on here I would have asked here a few months back for some help with my Kalman filters. That is assuming people know what they are on about and not just reciting wikipedia again.

You don't have really have to be an expert.

There are multiple officials in the US questioning the cost effectiveness of sinking more and more money into the black hole of missile defense systems. It's on record. Also on record are the failed tests, set up under ideal conditions, where the system was given the best chance possible of peforming, but didn't.

Am I an expert? Nope. But I can read and form an impression.

Also it stands to reason that a missile, often travelling above Mach 1, is going to be hard as hell to shoot down. Someone likened it to trying to intercept a bullet with a bullet.

 

[Muzza1875]

Good looking chaps

 

[ubersonic]

Syrian civilians voluntarily creating a human shield around military assets to try and deter US aggression:

 

[Devlish]

Lol, GD at its finest.

 

[Biohazard]

Technically it was authorised by a government department, as are all exports to countries which have sanctions against them (meaning they have to be authorised, not that they are), again its not exactly the same as saying that Britain/British government did it.

For record the export licenses were revoked almost two years ago after additional sanctions were added.

So a Government department isn't the actions of Government then?

Even when it is controlled by a Government Minister?

 

[ubersonic]

So a Government department isn't the actions of Government then?

If the DVLA fail a person on their driving test is that the direct actions of the government? People are really having trouble with this aren't they, OK lets sum it up:


What the media are reporting:
The British government sold nerve gas chemicals to Assad during the civil war, ZOMG!


What really happened:
A couple of British companies were given a licence to export chemicals which can be used as precursors, to a number of companies in a number of countries including Syria, the British government itself had no involvement except for exportation being authorized by a government body (like it would have ot be for any country) however no chemicals were shipped to Syria as both the company and the government body grew concerned about the escalating situation in Syria (which at the time of licence application had been nothing major). The decision was then made to revoke the licences as it looked like civil war was breaking out in Syria and the chemicals in question could be used in the manufacturing process of chemical weapons (not in the weapons themselves btw).

Can you see the difference now?

 

[Biohazard]

If the DVLA fail a person on their driving test is that the direct actions of the government? People are really having trouble with this aren't they, OK lets sum it up:


What the media are reporting:
The British government sold nerve gas chemicals to Assad during the civil war, ZOMG!


What really happened:
A couple of British companies were given a licence to export chemicals which can be used as precursors, to a number of companies in a number of countries including Syria, the British government itself had no involvement except for exportation being authorized by a government body (like it would have ot be for any country) however no chemicals were shipped to Syria as both the company and the government body grew concerned about the escalating situation in Syria (which at the time of licence application had been nothing major). The decision was then made to revoke the licences as it looked like civil war was breaking out in Syria and the chemicals in question could be used in the manufacturing process of chemical weapons (not in the weapons themselves btw).

Can you see the difference now?

It's a slightly flawed comparison.

There's a slight difference between a ministerial office and department and a 'regular' non-ministerial department.

I would suggest that general exports to 'at risk' regions of the world do come under high level scrutiny and overview.

I don't really accept the disconnect that proponents of certain governments put forward in this respect, ministerial or otherwise it is still the policy of the day.

Grown up Governments take responsibility for their actions (and policy and guidance).

 

[Devlish]

Interestingly the BND, German Intelligence, say they have intercepted a call from a Hezbollah Commander saying that Assad ordered the attack because he thought he was about to lose Damascus. Germany have already said they are not taking part in any military action against Assad.

From Reuters.

 

[zenf]

That's also plausible.

What doesn't strike me as being possible is that he's spilling classified information with impunity. Doesn't add up.

If what he's saying is true and the US went after him for leaking classified information, it would lend credence and bring attention to what he's saying. At the moment, no one is really paying attention to him and if it's true, it makes sense for the US to keep it that way.

 

[scorza]

Interestingly the BND, German Intelligence, say they have intercepted a call from a Hezbollah Commander saying that Assad ordered the attack because he thought he was about to lose Damascus. Germany have already said they are not taking part in any military action against Assad.

From Reuters.

Good old Germans, why do they have to be better at everything than everyone else? No doubt forum members like ubersonic or Lazder won't believe it until a "personality" makes a ******** video about this though.

Meanwhile Putin showing his class by refusing to sit next to Obama at the G20. Is this what being an "international strong man" has become - the politics of the playground?