Terrible Jaguar re-brand

[Simon]

Completely different. I don’t even understand that relevance. You know a car plant just puts parts together made by other companies ? You can build a car without making any parts.

Toyota used to ‘outsource’ the Avensis to a plant in the UK to build cars to their spec for Japan market. How’s that any different to sending the same parts to a plant to put them together ?

Magnatec Steyr made a lot of Mercedes E class too

You know they make the Toyota Supra and Z4 too ?

 

[bigmike20vt]

I can't comment to how much they designed and engineered it, but that posts stinks like the Mini/BMW debacle where my Rover friends insisted it just needed the badge putting on when BMW asset stripped it....

where do you stand on other Magna Steyr cars?

is the Z4 not a BMW then? (and according to google the Toyota Supra the Merc G wagon and the BMW 5 series)

 

[Simon]

Look at Porsche and Karmann too.

It’s a silly comment to make out it’s a bad thing to outsource assembling a car. Do apple make iPhones in America too? Should they if there is capability elsewhere without needing billions in capex and just losing a big of margin on a low volume vehicle ?

 

[Conscript]

He parked a caravan lengthways over 4 bays lol. He isn't balanced at all.

Are you talking about the Macan video with the car trailer? Surely half of the point of that video was specifically aimed at exploring why EVs aren't really suitable for towing, and that was just a demonstration of one of the reasons - it's not practical to stop and charge one without having room to disconnect the trailer first. I doubt he just dumped it there then went off for a coffee. That's an entirely fair criticism to point out, surely? And it's not indicative of some inherent bias against EVs; if you actually watch the video, he seems fairly happy with the Macan itself and his main criticisms are it's efficiency and price, both of which he thinks might be helped by going for a lower end model with smaller wheels.

I also just went back and skimmed through the latest EV video I remember watching him do, the Tesla Model 3 - again, I thought he came away fairly impressed by it overall, and most of his gripes were things which aren't really related to it being an EV (touchscreen transmission selection for example). Granted, he recognizes that Tesla is probably the market leading choice for EVs and that's why he wanted to review one; but that says to me that he is at least interested in them and willing to give them a fair shake, even if they don't yet fulfill his use case. In fact, in the intro to the video, although he mentions not liking the BMW i5, he acknowledges that it's because BMW have already done the "amazing" (his words) i3/i8.

I admit I do enjoy his videos, so trying not to be too biased myself. But in a world where people will spout the most spurious nonsense at any opportunity just to have a pop at EVs (think we probably know a few on this forum...), I still maintain I've always thought he had quite a positive outlook on them - or at least, he came across as someone who wants EVs to prosper, even though they have some application issues for him.

EDIT: Getting back on topic - I watched his video. Even in physical form the car looks [JonnySmith]stchewpid, just stchewpid![/JonnySmith]. No real new information, I still don't think we have a good idea of what it will end up looking like and wont until we see the prototype without it's dazzle camo off

 

[dlockers]

Are you talking about the Macan video with the car trailer? Surely half of the point of that video was specifically aimed at exploring why EVs aren't really suitable for towing, and that was just a demonstration of one of the reasons - it's not practical to stop and charge one without having room to disconnect the trailer first. I doubt he just dumped it there then went off for a coffee. That's an entirely fair criticism to point out, surely? And it's not indicative of some inherent bias against EVs; if you actually watch the video, he seems fairly happy with the Macan itself and his main criticisms are it's efficiency and price, both of which he thinks might be helped by going for a lower end model with smaller wheels.

I also just went back and skimmed through the latest EV video I remember watching him do, the Tesla Model 3 - again, I thought he came away fairly impressed by it overall, and most of his gripes were things which aren't really related to it being an EV (touchscreen transmission selection for example). Granted, he recognizes that Tesla is probably the market leading choice for EVs and that's why he wanted to review one; but that says to me that he is at least interested in them and willing to give them a fair shake, even if they don't yet fulfill his use case. In fact, in the intro to the video, although he mentions not liking the BMW i5, he acknowledges that it's because BMW have already done the "amazing" (his words) i3/i8.

I admit I do enjoy his videos, so trying not to be too biased myself. But in a world where people will spout the most spurious nonsense at any opportunity just to have a pop at EVs (think we probably know a few on this forum...), I still maintain I've always thought he had quite a positive outlook on them - or at least, he came across as someone who wants EVs to prosper, even though they have some application issues for him.

EDIT: Getting back on topic - I watched his video. Even in physical form the car looks [JonnySmith]stchewpid, just stchewpid![/JonnySmith]. No real new information, I still don't think we have a good idea of what it will end up looking like and wont until we see the prototype without it's dazzle camo off

He propagates the same nonsense everyone else does about EVs, and doesn't use his platform to dispel any of the myths whatsoever. Some of his original thoughts include:

Edit: the point about towing specifically - if you follow the data, most folk who tow caravans only go a handful of miles away anyway. So the EV not being suitable for towing isn't correct

 

[Clarkson]

I've built IKEA furniture, does that mean IKEA didn't do anything?

 

[sx_turbo]

Not a radical amount different to the prototype mule already tested I image...

It is quite different though.

Also the reveal video, the bloke talking is so boring, where on earth did they get him from, it should have been an exciting event, he just killed the atmosphere in a bad way.

 

[sx_turbo]

What is so disappointing about this whole thing - is that the iPace is a great looking car. It
was pretty unique styling wise when it came out. I think it did hard yards in convincing regular Jaguar folk that Jaguar could be cool and innovative.

The XE was a nothing burger unfortunately (although I loved my XE25t). I can count on one hand how many of the facelift models I have seen in real life; and the XF was always at a disadvantage to the battle tank 520/530D (I loved my 15' XF - but it was a decade behind the Mercedes '12 C180 it replaced). XJ I think did well for the market it targeted but those buyers are all dying out now.

They had a real chance to rotate to a volume EV company whilst retaining the highest end cars. If they had brought iPace production to the UK, presumably they'd have been making a lot more margin too?

The i-pace was boring and bland, it wasn't innovative, the technology was, but the design .most certainly wasn't, the proportions are all wrong, there is a reason it didn't sell well, it didn't entice buyers, it looked dated when it launched and hasn't aged any better.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder though

 

[EddScott]

where do you stand on other Magna Steyr cars?

I saw the fact that Magna Steyr had built the IPace as a big plus. I have a great love of old Jeep Cherokee XJs. All Euro XJs were built from flat plack kits from the US and were considered superior to their US cousins having been built by MS.

The Jaguar rebrand and then reveal honestly seems like some kind of parody or trolling on a global scale.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder though

The IPace was overpriced and didn't have the same tech levels as other EVs at the time. Jag marketing was way behind the more recognised EV suppliers.

I wouldn't say it was beautiful, but it's certainly a handsome car. With the F Type seats and cream interior, I've often had spaceship comments when folk first get in it.

 

[sx_turbo]

How are jaguar late to the market. They were the first European OEM with an EV.

They took too long to develop, that's why they cancelled the xj, Audi had it's e-tron launch shortly after the xj should have and the technology employed on the e-tron was a significant step up from the xj.

The xj was supposedly heavily based on the tech from the I-pace.

They also failed to develop the I-pace,

Jaguar seem to forgot that you have to update and release new products it's not like the good old days where you could get away with selling the same vehicle for 40 years like British manufacturers used to try and get away with.

 

[bigmike20vt]

.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder though

this is true.. everyone is entitled to an opinion (even tho yours is wrong )

for me the ipace is the best looking production car jaguar made (or designed if you want to argue the toss) in recent time aside from the F Type.

Other than the Electre I can't think of a better looking SUV either be it ICE or EV.

I have wanted one ever since they launched but to be honest never expected to own one.

 

[Armageus]

It is quite different though.

It's not that different though?

It's got as close to the "wraparound visor" as you can get whilst needing an A pillar (although some of the glass is obscured with camo wrap so you can't see the true lines)

Equally the front is fairly similar with the lower boxes, a central square that could easily be covered with the "straked" front, and the lights look quite thin (although difficult to be sure with the camo masking)

The biggest difference is the rear is not curved, but it wouldn't be outside the possibility of a panel being fixed over the top to round that off?

 

[dlockers]

The i-pace was boring and bland, it wasn't innovative, the technology was, but the design .most certainly wasn't, the proportions are all wrong, there is a reason it didn't sell well, it didn't entice buyers, it looked dated when it launched and hasn't aged any better.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder though

Boring and bland? Are we looking at the same car? It is probably one of the most distinctive EVs on the road.

 

[Conscript]

He propagates the same nonsense everyone else does about EVs, and doesn't use his platform to dispel any of the myths whatsoever. Some of his original thoughts include:

Which of these are myths? This is a genuine question. I'm not anti EV at all; I don't own one, but I am thinking about future ownership, and 3/4 of those reasons above are things which concern me, too.

But even if they are, is he under any obligation to dispel them? He's a car reviewer. He reviews cars. If he reviews a lot of electric cars and during his tenure with them, finds they all have large discrepancies between claimed/real-world range, and raises that as a concern, is that unfair or unbalanced to say so? From what I've seen, that's a fairly regular complaint, even from the most ardent EV supporters - same goes for high purchase prices and concerns about battery life. Besides, in his Tesla video he praises it's efficiency and ease of charging - how is that not dispelling some of those generalizations above?

I'm sure I've seen him review quite a few cars marketed as GTs, which have thirsty engines and small tanks, and called them out too as being disadvantages. I'm not sure he's calling out EVs specifically, it's just that EVs will suffer this sort of problem more frequently. Acknowledging the obvious drawbacks of an EV (or any car) when weighing up your purchase decisions doesn't make you "anti EV", nor does it suggest you don't want them to succeed.

Edit: the point about towing specifically - if you follow the data, most folk who tow caravans only go a handful of miles away anyway. So the EV not being suitable for towing isn't correct

But caravans aren't the only thing people tow. He's towing a car in a trailer - I imagine that's heavier than a caravan and something he would be regularly towing long distance (restoration, concourse events).
One of the reasons a full EV wouldn't be suitable for us right now is because my girlfriend needs to tow a horsebox semi-regularly, which is probably getting on for 1800Kgs. When you're towing a live animal, you don't really want to have any concern whatsoever about not having the range to make it to your destination. And even notwithstanding the physical impracticality of fitting a car/horsebox at a public charger, it's not something you'd want to do with a live animal if you can avoid it. Pointing out these drawbacks still seems entirely fair to me.

Which is actually annoying because in ever other respect, EVs are the perfect towing vehicle - smooth, effortless, stepless torque from a standstill. Quiet. And usually significantly heavier which makes for great stability.

 

[Nasher]

Boring and bland? Are we looking at the same car? It is probably one of the most distinctive EVs on the road.

It is quite generic SUV though. It looks ok, but nothing amazing.

In 20 years are people going to look back and remember it, or consider it a classic? Probably not.

 

[GarethSouthgate]

Boring and bland? Are we looking at the same car? It is probably one of the most distinctive EVs on the road.

Looks like a Scirocco on stilts.

If you're talking about good looking cars the pre-facelift F-Type is top notch.

 

[bigmike20vt]

my girlfriend needs to tow a horsebox semi-regularly, which is probably getting on for 1800Kgs.

I have your solution. tow the horse until the car battery runs out then when it does get the horse out, chain the car to it and the horse can tow it the rest of the way.
simples.
I will pop the bill for my advice and solution in the post later this week

 

[GarethSouthgate]

It's not that different though?

It's got as close to the "wraparound visor" as you can get whilst needing an A pillar (although some of the glass is obscured with camo wrap so you can't see the true lines)

Equally the front is fairly similar with the lower boxes, a central square that could easily be covered with the "straked" front, and the lights look quite thin (although difficult to be sure with the camo masking)

The biggest difference is the rear is not curved, but it wouldn't be outside the possibility of a panel being fixed over the top to round that off?

For me the long bonnet only really works proportionally on smaller cars. It all looks a bit too stretched out but it's not too bad, I guess, much better than an I-Pace. The front end reminds me of a Rolls Royce.

 

[Conscript]

I have your solution. tow the horse until the car battery runs out then when it does get the horse out, chain the car to it and the horse can tow it the rest of the way.
simples.
I will pop the bill for my advice and solution in the post later this week

I have pointed out, many times, my distaste at being forced to transport an animal that should be up front doing the pulling.
I might have also muttered something about the money that can be made from glue sales, although I wouldn't dare say it too loudly.

Oh...i-Pace enjoyer here, too. Thought it looked great on release, and still does. 1v1 me.

 

[Nasher]

Looks like a Scirocco on stilts.

If you're talking about good looking cars the pre-facelift F-Type is top notch.

The only Jag car from modern times which will be collectable eventually (excluding the 4cyl).