*** The 2010 Gym Rats Thread ***

Rosbif - Easily achievable goals if you eat and train well.

I wouldn't worry so much about loosing any bodyfat if I were you. As you begin to put on mass your body will being burning more calories on its own. I don't see the point in cutting first when technically it'll be easier after the bulk to drop bodyfat. You'll also get to see what you've produced as opposed to finishing a cut with a blank canvas as such.

Do you currently train? if so how often and what have you been doing?
 
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Rosbif: To work out your BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate) do the following calculation, workout your RMR and then multiply your activity ratio:

RMR (Resting Metabolic Rate) = 66 + ( 13.7 x weight in kilos ) + ( 5 x height in cm ) - ( 6.8 x age in years )

This is what your body would need if you were sedantry and just needed to tick over (a bit like a car engine sat on the drive idling without revving the engine).

Now you need to work out your daily energy expenditure

So you take your RMR and multiply by one of the following (be honest to yourself):

a) If you are sedentary (little or no exercise) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.2
b) If you are lightly active (light exercise/sports (yoga, calenetics, light walking etc..) 1-3 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.375
c) If you are moderately active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.55
d) If you are very active (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days a week) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.725
e) If you are extra active (very hard exercise/sports & physical job or 2x training) : Calorie-Calculation = BMR x 1.9


Personally despite my hardcore gym nature I'm around c) maybe flitting up to d). However very much closer to c). It's important that you're honest.

500kcals a day over your BMR will in a week on average get you an extra lb. However unfortunately, it often isn't 100% muscle :( Conversely to get rid of of 1lb that's 3500kcals deficit you need. In plain amount of joules/energy required to burn 1lb it's pretty much bang on 3500kcals anyway!

You don't have to count calories really, just eat well, however, it's important to know where your body is at. ?Most people surprise themselves. Mine works out to be around 3500kcals.

So for you rosbif your RMR would be (at the age of 34 and with the stats you've given me):

RMR = 1793.527273

1.375= 2466.1
1.55= 2779.967273
1.725= 3093.834545

So your guestimate wasn't too bad! :cool: :)

You haven't got much fat on you at all. I think you could safely train to add some mass without much worry. You're happy with your diet and not eating crap - that's the number 1 battle. Now you just need to get a good weight lifting program to harden up the muscles you have and add a bit of size to you. Adding 10lbs of lean muscle is not easy, but achieveable this year if you're ready to do it. :)



Yabsley - 85kg at your height seems a little on the slim side - though perfectly health at the same time - taking muscle mass and fat aside that's about average weight for your height. What are your goals in terms of performance and aesthetic value?

I agree with you entirely that there have been some amazing threads and posts and achievements on here. That's why I love this forum - it even helps to motivate me, and when I get in a sulk about my physique and performance it often helps pick me right up again!
 
Hi Benny,

The points you raise have crossed my mind and I do agree with you. If I ask myself the question: What brings more value to my physique, muscle or less fat? The answer is a resounding muscle!

Like I said though, my hands are kinda tied until the end of January when my inventory of food is eaten :D Since we're half way through January I might as well just finish this dietary plan and start fresh, fully prepared for February.

On the training question, yes I do train, I have trained on and off for about a year. I followed Mark Rippetoes program and got my squat up to 85kg, Bench to 50kg, MP to 40kg, deadlift to 92.5kg, all of which I was quite chuffed about. I've always been in a calorie deprived state during my training though.

I was thinking that I would just continue with GVT in a calorie surplus state and see what kind of gains would be made. GVT is definitely my kind of style. I'm not really satisfied if I dont feel trashed after a workout and Rippetoes never did that to me ever, despite making strength gains.
 
It seems like you know a reasonable amount and that on it's own will help you no end.

For GVT you really need to be eating **** loads. The slow negatives ruin you with DOMS so lots of veg is necesarry. I too felt the need to feel completely burned out after a workout however there are other methods than huge amounts of volume. Short rest periods, slow negatives, supersets etc are all things to try.

A really clean bulking diet should see you add some lean mass with a minimal raise in bodyfat.

Also have a read of what Freefaller said up there^^^ he has lots of brains as well as a lot of muscle :p
 
Calories in the form of complex carbohydrates will add mass, combine that with a high intake of protein to build muscle and use compound exercises such as the bench press, squat and the deadlift, you will be on the road to a muscle and size physique.
 
Freefaller thank you very much for the BMR formula. Sorry, I really need to update my profile. I'm no where near 34, I'm actually 25. :) Anyway, after taking that into account my RMR is 1850.

I'm also going to be a c) candidate like yourself. Right now, I'm an e), but when I actually start my mass gaining in February, I wont be doing nearly as much cardio as I do now (which is A LOT!)

So, my RMR of 1850 * 1.55 = 2867.5 :eek:

3100 calories would give me a surplus near(ish) to 250 which would equate to about 2lb in the month. Is that a reasonable figure to be aiming for? I'm a bit paranoid about gaining un-necessary fat. Theres obviously a limit to the rate at which muscle can be built.

Sadly I need to count calories because I know if I dont I WILL under eat. lol, let me tell you that to hear myself say I need to count calories because if I dont I will under eat is mind boggling. I used to weigh 290lb and I never dreamed of the day when I'd be saying that ! :D
 
Does anybody know if there is any other benefit to using a 'safety squat' bar?

http://www.gymratz.co.uk/gymratz-safety-squat-bar

Not that I have the facility to use one but I have often seen images around the internet of people using these. I know they're often used by people with shoulder mobility issues but wondered if the weight being slightly lower down affects the center of gravity, making the lift easier/harder?

Also the fact your pulling on the handles to keep the weight on your back might make it a slightly bigger compound? I've seen all kinds of wierd shaped squat bars.

OT: Noted they have a 2" thick olympic bar for £65. not sure what rating but seems quite reasonable. Also a 2.5" bar available. For anybody with a home gym fancying a challenge.
 
Rosbif said:
Freefaller thank you very much for the BMR formula. Sorry, I really need to update my profile. I'm no where near 34, I'm actually 25. :) Anyway, after taking that into account my RMR is 1850.

I'm also going to be a c) candidate like yourself. Right now, I'm an e), but when I actually start my mass gaining in February, I wont be doing nearly as much cardio as I do now (which is A LOT!)

So, my RMR of 1850 * 1.55 = 2867.5 :eek:

3100 calories would give me a surplus near(ish) to 250 which would equate to about 2lb in the month. Is that a reasonable figure to be aiming for? I'm a bit paranoid about gaining un-necessary fat. Theres obviously a limit to the rate at which muscle can be built.

Sadly I need to count calories because I know if I dont I WILL under eat. lol, let me tell you that to hear myself say I need to count calories because if I dont I will under eat is mind boggling. I used to weigh 290lb and I never dreamed of the day when I'd be saying that ! :D
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290lbs?! Bloody hell you've done a great job getting to where you are now! Well done! :cool:

If you eat decent foods, including good fats, low gi/complex carbs and good quality protein, as well as refuelling properly after workouts (mix of carbs and protein), don't eat too late at night, eat the right snacks, and train your arse off a lot of your gains will be lean muscle. It takes months and months though. However just by stimulating muscle growth you will help keep fat at bay as your metabolic rate will increase - that's the joy of having lots of muscle! :D What's your routine going to be?

Benny06 said:
Does anybody know if there is any other benefit to using a 'safety squat' bar?

http://www.gymratz.co.uk/gymratz-safety-squat-bar

Not that I have the facility to use one but I have often seen images around the internet of people using these. I know they're often used by people with shoulder mobility issues but wondered if the weight being slightly lower down affects the center of gravity, making the lift easier/harder?

Also the fact your pulling on the handles to keep the weight on your back might make it a slightly bigger compound? I've seen all kinds of wierd shaped squat bars.

OT: Noted they have a 2" thick olympic bar for £65. not sure what rating but seems quite reasonable. Also a 2.5" bar available. For anybody with a home gym fancying a challenge.
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I don't think it'll make much difference to be honest. I also don't really like padding on the squat bar, it makes the bar feel unstable to me. However I can see why people with RC issues would find that a really useful bit of kit. :)
 
Yeah I can see how padding makes it feel less stable.

I have to constantly remove the foam pad from the bar. It makes me want to spit and wee on it!:mad: More trap mass and manning up! Better to address the cause of the problem than bandaid it with temporary solutions.
 
Benny06 said:
Does anybody know if there is any other benefit to using a 'safety squat' bar?

http://www.gymratz.co.uk/gymratz-safety-squat-bar

Not that I have the facility to use one but I have often seen images around the internet of people using these. I know they're often used by people with shoulder mobility issues but wondered if the weight being slightly lower down affects the center of gravity, making the lift easier/harder?

Also the fact your pulling on the handles to keep the weight on your back might make it a slightly bigger compound? I've seen all kinds of wierd shaped squat bars.

OT: Noted they have a 2" thick olympic bar for £65. not sure what rating but seems quite reasonable. Also a 2.5" bar available. For anybody with a home gym fancying a challenge.
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I want the Prowler sled that would be awesome fun to chase round the park
 
Freefaller said:
Yabsley - 85kg at your height seems a little on the slim side - though perfectly health at the same time - taking muscle mass and fat aside that's about average weight for your height. What are your goals in terms of performance and aesthetic value?
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Goals? Three words: Handsome Male Model.

Nah I guess loosely my goals are to reach and maintain a low BF% and to be cardiovascularly very fit.
 
Rosbif said:
Sadly I need to count calories because I know if I dont I WILL under eat. lol, let me tell you that to hear myself say I need to count calories because if I dont I will under eat is mind boggling. I used to weigh 290lb and I never dreamed of the day when I'd be saying that ! :D
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Dont be afraid of gaining some fat, you have to gain atleast a little and like FF says aslong as you eat clean and train hard you will not have any worry of this.

Just eat when you are hungry, untill you are full; your body will tell you if your eating right.

Freefaller said:
If you eat decent foods, including good fats, low gi/complex carbs and good quality protein, as well as refuelling properly after workouts (mix of carbs and protein), don't eat too late at night, eat the right snacks, and train your arse off a lot of your gains will be lean muscle. It takes months and months though. However just by stimulating muscle growth you will help keep fat at bay as your metabolic rate will increase - that's the joy of having lots of muscle! :D What's your routine going to be?
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I dont agree with that in bold. For example, if you are in a calorie defecit of 500 calories, you could eat all of your 2000calories (for e.g.) at 8 oclock and it will be impossible to put on fat providing you have exceeded your energy requirements for that day.

I regularly eat 1000calorie meals in the evening rather than 5 or more set meals throughout the day, and have not gained fat, lost it infact. Some studies have also shown this to a more effective way of eating.
 
Well, I disagree - I think eating your biggest meal of the day late at night is daft. A lighter meal with a pre-bed snack is fine though. Your metabolism doesn't work like that, it would much rather have smaller portions of food throught the day than all the of the calorie requirements in 1 sitting - that's just the way our bodies work, we're cyclical beings, it's just the way it is I'm afraid :(

Personally, I get 3/4s if not more of my nutrition in before I even get to the gym, let alone by dinner time. The problem is when people just eat a large meal, with lots of bad fats and simple carbs before bed. It's not ideal - sure you're not going to be a heffer as a result, but it's not the most efficient way of supplying your body with nutrition.

Slow release proteins, and maybe around 30g of carbs before bed does indeed help improve and potentially lower fat intake (and in my case stops me waking up at 3am for some food!), but still at least an hour before bed. It is, however, an absolute mistake taking the majority of your cals at night. Your body is trying to repair and fix itself at night, especially after a hard session, by loading it with food, it detracts from that, and furthermore doesn't metabolise the food as efficiently owing to the high level of non stimulating hormones (i.e. dopmaine, seratonin etc...) that you experience at night.

Furthermore, about a half hour after you fall asleep, your body releases a huge amount of growth hormone in one big spike. Unfortunately, high glucose levels (from carbs generally) will halt production of this growth hormone spike. Because of this, it's why I say that one should leave carbs out of your late night meal (though it has shown that a little dose can help induce a deeper sleep). However having 40 to 60 grams worth of protein before bed doesn't interfere with that spike, and that does contribute to a decent meal more often than not.

In order to slow the release of your protein, either make sure it's casein based, or take some fats with it, i.e. avocado, flaxseed oil or even some good organic peanut butter can work together. You can also choose to have a slow digesting protein like cottage cheese. However if your dinner consists of some lean meat or fish and lots of veggies, and you're not far off going to bed after your last mouthful then adding extra protein isn't required. If you dine at 7, but sleep at 11pm then I'd suggest the extra protein before bed.

Personallu, I eat good quality proteins and lots of veg before bed, but I try and keep it a minimum of 1.5hrs before bed.
 
I'd like to put on at least another half a stone of healthy weight. I'm up to 14 stone now and I'm 6'3.

I'd also like to be able to bench press 3x8 at 70kg. Currently sitting at 3x8 55kg and looking forward to pushing it further.
 
FF, I train early in the morning just before I go to work. Generally I just have a banana and cuppa before I go and then a bowl of porridge and a Egg after training, do you reckon this will be ok. On your advice im dropping the big meal late in the evening, but im not sure how to feed the body with my early training.

So far I dont feel knackered from a morning workout, but as im getting closer to doing bigger weights, it might become a problem?
 
Freefaller said:
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Fair point with the metabolism idea. However, I am on a high fat diet with little carbs, with the only sources coming from fruit and veg. I usually have 3 big meals through the day containing probably close to 800calories each but I dont count so can't be sure. Each meal has about 50g protein in, along with my snack. One of these meals is usualy around 9-9.30pm due to my schedule. I then goto bed at around 11. I and a few others that do this in the other forum I use have noticed great results.

Since doing this my bodyfat has lowered, and my strength has been going up nicely through out. I can also goto the gym in the morning on a completely empty stomach and still increase my lifts purely by the foods I ate the previous day.

Once you do this for enough time you can go all through the day without eating and you won't be hungry, but once it comes to a certain time your body will want food, it adapts quickly to your lifestyle.
THE EFFECT OF MEAL FREQUENCY ON ACCUMULATION OF MUSCLE MASS AND STRENGTH DURING 12 WEEKS OF STRENGTH TRAINING

Truls Raastad1, Therese Fostervold1, Ã?yvind Hansen2, Ernst Albin Hansen1, Ina Garthe1,3, Per
Egil Refsnes3

1
Norweigan School of Sports Science, Oslo, Norway; 2Department of Nutrition, University of
Oslo, Norway, Olympiatoppen, Oslo, Norway

DISCUSSION
Surprisingly the 3 meals/day group increased strength and muscle cross sectional area in upper
body significantly more than the 6 meals/day group. In studies where the acute effect of meals on
muscle protein metabolism is studied, the general conclusion is that each time a minimum of
essential amino acids (6 g) and carbohydrates (30 g) are ingested, muscle protein synthesis is
maximally stimulated for a short time [3]. Hence, we hypothesised that 6 meals/day should be
superior to 3 meals/day, because of a more frequent stimulation of muscle protein synthesis. The
only study in which some support for few and larger meals can be found, is a study on older
women, where a more positive nitrogen balance was observed with a concentrated intake of
protein compared to protein intake equally distributed on 4 meals per day [4]. However, this effect
was not observed in younger adults [5].

CONCLUSION
We found no beneficial effect of eating 6 meals/day compared to 3 meals/day as long as the total
energy intake and the intake of nutrients is similar and above the requirements. On the contrary
we found indications in favour of 3 meals/day on both strength and muscle mass measurements in
upper body.

REFERENCES
[1] Paddon-Jones et al., Am. J. Physiol.Endocrinol. Metab. 288, E761-E7671, 2005.
[2] Iwao et al., Scand. J. Med. Sci. Sports. 6, 256-272, 1996.
[3] Tipton & Wolfe., J. Sporst Sci. 22, 65-79, 2004.
[4] Arnal et al., Am J Clin Nutr. 69 (6):1202-1208, 1999.
[5] Arnal et al., J Nutr. 130 (7):1700-1704, 2000.
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Here is the study, although not directly linked with eating late, it does show the results of 3 large meals which could be argued towards how our metabolism works through out the day.
 
Banana and a cuppa is fine, but you need to make sure you had a big decent meal as soon as you get home.

Just to re-itterate, I'm not saying don't have a wholesome healthy dinner, just don't stuff yourself excessively right before bed, and make sure you minimise the carbs and have a nice healthy mix of proteins and fats, with a lot of veggies. By the time you get to bed your stomach should be clear of bulk and the nutrients should be entering the digestive tract ready for absorption which will be aplified by the GH spike. If you miss that spike and your food is still in your belly, you won't absorb the nutrients as readily, and seems a bit of a shame - I agree you won't get fat though.

If you start to do bigger weights, see how you feel and see if you run low on energy or not. Until then you'll just have to play it by ear. :)
 
Ben - sounds to me like your diet is fine and it's not as if you're eating directly before bed, 1.5-2hrs is more than enough time for your body to have readily digested a lot of the food. Certainly if it's high in protein and veg. :)

I completely agree that morning training is definitely reflective on what you've had the previous day - that's just pure logic rather than science, since you will have absorbed all the nutrients ready to be used - however the post work out meal is all the more imperative.

My argument for smaller meals is owing to optimised protein synthesis and carb manipulation for greater insulin response - which is a bit more advanced and slightly off the topic of before bed.

I think we had misunderstood one another and slightly talking at cross purposes - as long as you're sensible with what you eat and don't eat so late as to be sleeping on a full stomach then we're agreed it's not a massive issue.
 
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