*** The 2010 Gym Rats Thread ***

Can you work out the macros for me as I don't know what exactly each one has... Though to me it looks like that barely comes to 2000cals.

Edit: ok so you need about 2000cals to stay alive, now you have to add your activity level on top of that. So you need to work out how many extra calories you need a day.

Then ontop of that you need to add about 500 extra cals to start even getting close to putting on some weight. So you probably need at least another 1000 cals.
 
I'm just guessing as I can't workout what the macros are - you have the packs in front of you, work out what the macros are (protein/fat/carb/calories). Then work it out from there. I cant' do it from here! :D

Dude, I eat over 3k a day without much effort. You just need to plan better or eat more calorific foods.
 
Typical day for me:

4/5 egg scrambled eggs
oat based cereal/porridge.
or
huge bowl of porridge, with fruits and nuts & cinnamon

or a variation of a theme
sometimes smoothies (yoghurt, 3-4 fruits, cinnamon, oats, hemp protein, milk)

Either way breakfast isn't far off 1000cals

I have a big bowl of mixed nuts (unsalted unroasted) (brazil, almonds, hazlenuts, macademias etc...)

Again here this is about 300cals alone
selection of fruits (2 or 3)

oat cakes, I have some cottage cheese at work and peanut butter depending on my mood.

Again this can vary from 300-500 cals

I have a couple of wholemeal pittas filled to bursting with ham/chicken/beef/cheese/spinach as "snack" to eat between meals.

Around 600 cals here.

I have a local cafe who used to be a gym rat who is awesome, makes some great dishes, and some low carb, some high protein and whatever I decide. My favourite is his mince beef chilli, but he does some amazing egg based dishes, jacket potatoes, fish cakes etc... Often I have some smoked mackerel too if he has it on offer. Either way it's delicious, either his hot or cold dishes.

This gives me another 500-800

Then after a workout I have a protein and oat shake.

About 180-200cals

Dinner is always relatively light, i.e. mackerel, tuna, trout, chicken, with LOTS and I mean LOTS of veg, broccoli, sugar snap peas, mange tout, rocket, beetroot etc...

Again about 600cals or so.

Often snack on hommous and carrots as well and lots of other different snacks.

I vary my diet a lot it just depends on my mood, and what I fancy buying the supermarket.

This comes to just under 4000 cals, but it can vary from anything from 3200 to 4500 it just really depends. :)
 
Yeah definitely more energy for low carbing IMO, feel less lethargic. However the energy hit you lose for a gym session is impressive. That's why I always carb up before and after the gym - insulin spikes ready to do their thing! ;)

I used to eat 300-400g of carbs per day, easily hit over 5000 cals a day. Hitting 5000cals without carbs is very hard work, doable! You basically have to dedicate your life to preparing food - not easy! :(

Yeah I read your log, as you see I've recently been measured, and have gained sized, but dropped BF which is fantastic! :cool: It is possible, but you have to put the effort in, and traing hard, eat well. However, it pays off.:)
 
I'd rather have more proteins than fats, but more fats than carbs - and that's exactly how my diet is at the moment, and how I've been tailoring it over the years. When I started lifting I just used to eat lots (well) but lots, and I just included lots of complex / low gi carbs, but I was hitting 4-5k cals a day. But at the expense of fats, so it was 40/40/20. I've slowly been reeling myself in over the past 2-3years now that I'm at a very good condition (i.e. heavy, good development and relatively low BF), and I've been chipping away at the bodyfat, and it's coming down, whilst my size is increasing. So it's all good.

Anyway, it just proves that you can lose fat, gain lean muscle mass and get stronger all at the same time. It just takes dedication and hard work, and a bit of discipline.

However, when I get back from skiing, I'll be focusing more on size for a bit, whilst staying as lean as possible of course, nutrition will be bang on, but calorie intake will be high.
 
Yeah. I could have also achieved it better had I started in my early 20s, with a better diet. :) I've learnt and still am learning a lot as I progress, but I'm a bit of a perfectionist and like to know exactly what I'm doing and how to do it etc... So that's why the last few years have been a bit more "slow" in terms of progress as I've been keen to really understand each part of my training, including lifting the weights, but how to lift them, what to eat, when to eat, how to eat, supplementation etc...

I've probably over studied a little as I confuse myself at times nad lose track of certain bits of research.

If I wasn't concerned about bodyfat, I reckon I could easily surpass all my goals now. However, although I'm not bothered excessively about the aesthetic values of going to the gym, I prefer to stay trim & fit rather than get big, and lose a lot of size and strength, which invariably happens. It's easier to put on strength and size slowly than it is to lose the size and keep the strength!
 
I've just reviewed my 'cutting diet'...

Seems to be coming out at around 2500-3000 calories dependant upon the evening meal.

Bloody nuts are going to have to be dropped I think until I finish this as they're full of calories! :(

Re-introducing carbs (oats pre & post w/o plus maybe some pitta at lunch) should see that bumped up to nearer 3500 with around 150 - 200 grams of carbs.

Yeah nuts are an awesome snack for calories and general awesomeness! :D But since you're dropping calories then yeah it's a cheap easy win.

I'm on a "maintenance/slight cutting" diet of around 3.2k calories at the moment. When I got back to AGVT and / or my regular routine I'll be hitting up to 4k calories daily. Can't wait to eat more again! Though I don't feel hungry since I have a protein rich diet, which keeps me satiated, but I'm being quite strict (most of the time).

150-200g is bang on IMO, well certainly for my weight and metabolic rate. Pre/post WO is vital though.

Freefaller, you said you eat oatcakes, how many do you eat? i.e. what nutrition figures do you get from the amount carbs and calories wise?

Also, whats people oninions on crepes, since they are just milk, flour and eggs are they an acceptable snack? Obviously the toppings will have a say, but maybe a scoop of ice cream or something.

I'll eat a pack of 7 usually, and i have some cottage cheese/organic peanut butter at work that I have with them. Without the extras it comes to about 330 or so cals. With the cottage cheese it adds another 150 or so, but significantly increases the protein balance. However I'm not eating them at the moment as I'm being good and keeping the calories and carbs as low as I can sensibly. However, when I got for harder programs/regimes I re-introduce them and my full diet will be back on form. :)

Crepes are about 50/50 on carb/protein depending on how you make them - I wouldn't choose them as a snack though to be honest. As a treat from time to time, but not a regular part of a diet. Just my opinion of course. :)
 
Thanks, Im just trying to think of some ~300 cal snack as Im allergic to nuts :(

Then oat cakes and cottage cheese is a good snack.

As are sardines, smoke mackerel and that sort of thing. :)

Currently, shooting myself in the foot, I've not had any carbs pre/post workout as I've been trying to keep them low.

I know how important the insulin spike is so don't know why I haven't introduced them again. I want to keep them low so will split 1 scoop pre and post workout, unless you think it would be more beneficial to have it all after?

I'm actually excited to start my next bulk :D now my nutrition is much much better. Not that it was bad before but it got cleaned right up recently.

Post is more important, but splitting is a good idea IMO. Gives you a bit of fuel for the workout.
 
I've tried the Sainsbury's and Waitrose versions and both are good. However cottage cheese is an acquired taste. I buy mine from a small cafe/deli near work and just leave it in the fridge at work so not sure on the brand I'm afraid!
 
When bulking are you planning on keeping carbs at about the same level, just increase cals through extra proteins and fats.

I've read through lots of articals that suggest taking in any more than 1g of protein per pound of body weigth doesn't have any more benifit than just getting in the exact amount. Any additional proteins will either be broken down into fat storage or if carb/calorie levels are low glycogen. So taking in more proteins shouldn't have any negative effects, it's just not necessary.

Yeah keep carbs low, but probably refeed a bit over the weekend. I'm just not bothered about carbs that much anymore - I don't feel the urge to eat them as much as I used to which is handy. :)

There's a lot of debate about whether or not we need 0.8g per kg or up to 2g per kg of lean body weight. The basic fact is that optimal protein synthesis is around 20-30g at one time. Any more than that, you will still synthesis, but the excess will just be oxidised (either turned into energy, fat, or moved to another part of the body that requires amino acids of some kind for different purposes other than protein synthesis for skeletal muscle.

Whilst excercising protein synthesis decreases (naturally). So we need to get it back up to nominal levels. Conversely we can try and minimise the reduction of protein synthesis, by taking bcaa/eaas before workout. For example Leucine is one of the BCAAs that is important in regulating the initiation and of protein synthesis, certainly after exercise. After exercise, protein and/or BCAAs (depending on the amino acid profile of your protein source) is required for kick start in getting your protein synthesis going again, this is done by increasing L-Leucine concentrations. Increased L-Leucine PWO releases the inhibition of the initiation factors. This ties in with insulin which also has a control over the inhibition of translation initiation.

Insulin and L-Leucine regulate prtoein synthesis within the muscles, though clearly this is dependent on your body type and diet, and the way you train etc... In fact it goes to levels that are too complex for me! :o

This leads on nicely to EEAs and protein synthesis. Although the effect of insulin and the time spent in muscle protein anabolism after taking EAAs differ from person to person, EAA ingestion is nonetheless effective at acutely stimulating muscle protein synthesis in people.

A mixture of EAAs containing a certain amount of leucine (I can't remember the amount, around 3-4g I think) increased protein synthesis up to 60% - though this is taken from basal values, I can't remember the name of study, I just remember the figure. This is why I bang on about amino acid profiles of protein that people want to buy, it's far more important than how much "whey" or hemp you get down your neck. You get leucine in eggs, chicken and beef too. (in fact have a look here for foods containing leucine: http://www.dietaryfiberfood.com/leucine-rich.php). So if you keep your leucine intake to that level with most meals your effectively optimising protein synthesis, minimising catabolism and atrpohy.

The protein intake required to reach that much leucine is only around 25-30g whey isolate, or aound 40g from eggs, 40-50g from chicken, and about the same for beef. If you look through that link I sent, it's so easy to keep your amino acid intakes high without even using supplements - hence why, I again, bang on that a diet is far more important than reaching for supplements all the time. :) For what it's worth the elevated amount of protein synthesis can last anything from 2 to 4hrs, hence the proposed argument for eating every few hours.

Incidentally, amino acids are typically absorbed within about 15mins and peak within about 30 mins or so. Hence the argument for drinking amino acids before a workout and during a work out as well as post work out. However I've often questioned whether or not you want to keep protein synthesis active which may block or diminish other proteins and hormones from reacting to the work they are having to undertake during a workout - but that's another debate altogether!

Now going back to the carb/protein question, or more specifically carb and EAA from all that I've read post workout creates a significantly great anabolic response than EEAs/protein alone, I'm convinced this is to do with insulin transport within the protein synthesis process.

I can't categorically state how much protein per meal is ideal, but taking into consideration protein oxidisation if you injest more than can be synthesised, there must be a maximum. There is, and it's all to do with their amino acid profiles. Can you work it out for each meal? Not really, and if so it's a ball ache. So I aim between 30-40g as I know that I'll be getting enough leucine in to release the inhibition of the initiation factors for protein synthesis. There's so much more to it than that though, you have to take into consideration the fats you injest the rise in anabolic hormone response that that offers, clearly all the hormonal responses should be taken into consideration. I know there's a bit of a standard distribution curve which shows peaks at around 30-40g, but I can't remember where I found that. However, in purely biological/science reasoning it would make sense that there's a bell curve distribution and a "peak" so to speak. That doesn't mean to say that any more won't mean more bang for buck, it just means that gramme for gramme you're getting more at around 30-40g.

Now this is just from studies, and from research I've done, not everyone agrees with this, but it does seem to make sense. Do I follow this by the book? No, as I cant' always feed when I want to, but I do try and eat the right things, in the right quantities, when I can. So take what you want from this post, do your own research, agree/disagree I'm happy to hear other theories and ideas - I'm by no means an expert, just someone who reads a lot of information and absorbs it like a sponge! :D I know I haven't really answered the question, but maybe it's given enough direction to your question for you to be able to seek out what you need? If so I'd be happy to hear back from you! :)
 
Nothing like doing a big arm workout in 30oc heat and beating sun


RAWR
I AM MAN!!!!

Arms session? Meh, not that manly, even though it was in the sun. ;)

Come back and tell me you've done deadlifts, squats and other big exercises in the sun, then I'll give you the respect you want - not for arms I'm afraid :p

Try squatting in the rain (on a slipsafe mat). Now that makes you feel like an animal.

Now this my friend, THIS is a manly session. :cool:

Went to the doctors earlier and explained my possible rotator cuff problems, he was really helpful and basically checked my feild of motion and said to keep doing the light exercises I was doing and if it persisted he would refer me to a sport physiotherapist.

He also asked me if I done gummiberry juice:eek:.

You going to a sport physio anyway? I went to my sports physio directly because I trust my doctor as much as I can throw him (albeit probably quite far :p). I'd still go.

And clearly you're on the juice mate, don't deny it! ;)
 
If you're able to do all 8 reps of all the sets, and squat DEEP (and I mean deep, doesn't have to be ATG but bellow parallel) then you probably should up the weight.

Remember your legs are a big muscle but are used day in day out, and as such need a lot of extra stimulus to get them to grown and break the muscle fibres down within them. I always do about 6 sets of leg work so it doesn't seem too bad to me. :)
 
Had a great leg workout tonight after my 3 warm up sets, I banged out 3 sets of 8-10 reps @150kg squats below parallel. I'm really getting my power back now, it's full steam ahead! woop woop! :D
 
No probs. I'm happy to share what I've learnt and happy to debate/discuss pros and cons of anything relating to the gym. :) Glad you found it interesting (I do get carried away at times though! :o).

Good to hear that you're doing things right. So many people eat a certain way, take supps etc.. without really knowing why. Whilst it's entirely their choice, I just find it odd that people would go to all that expense and effort without really understanding why, and if they actually need it.

I, like you, keep carbs low, get plenty of protein and good fats in, and spike my carbs around training, but I relax a bit more about it over the weekend. Leucine is found in foods anyway, so if you vary your diet and take in some protein with good sources of leucine and generally a good amino acid profile you shouldn't really need to worry about it. However it does increase protein synthesis significantly, and clearly depending on how serious you are timing your foods and taking advantages of your natural hormonal spikes in your day to day life can be only but beneficial! :)

I'm not starting my AGVT routine till March. I'm still conditioning at the moment, and off skiing again tomorrow. However my "bulks" aren't really massive bulking diet wise, if anything I just increase protein content more, and just take in a bit more carbs pre/post WO. Though I'm not looking forward to my shopping bill when I'm aiming for 4000+ cals a day! :D

I don't think 40-50g is excessive in one sitting, as you will still be in in the "high" synthesis zone of the standard distribution curve, it's just not "max" however, taking the forumla of the area under the curve, you will still synthesis more protein, just when you exceed 30g (or there abouts) the rate at which it is synthesised is less optimal - doesn't mean it doesn't get digested or used! :)
 
I love 80% chocolate. It's actually not a bad carb to take in, and has a good dopamine release which is always welcomed! :D You absolutely must treat yourself - there's no point in life otherwise!

Paz, how's the knee?
 
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