*** The 2012 Gym Rats Thread ***

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Soldato
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How long before you're back on HST?
I'm not even thinking about such advanced training yet, just happy to be able to train at all at the moment mate. Going to really work on my cardio health and core strength first. If everything is going to plan around April/May then I might start looking at some Chad Waterbury or Lyle MacDonald routines.

I doubt I'd try HST for another year yet.
 
Soldato
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Well chuffed, staying down London (White Chapel) for half the week so was worried I wouldn't get any proper gym time in, especially with the gym ratz meet this weekend. But just been told I can get a 1 day pass for the LA fitness from my hotel :)
 
Caporegime
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That's quite plainly rubbish. Sure genetics will help develop more/less, but irrespective of that if you train well, eat well, you will develop no matter what. Sure you won't necessarily be a mass monster, or get amazingly good looking abs or muscles necessarily, but you WILL grow, you WILL develop muscle - it's just basic human biology. Don't listen to that crap. It takes YEARS - if you're giving up because it's not happening over night then you need to calm down, take a breath and keep at it. Else, just do it to keep fit. Look at the people on here, all shapes and sizes, and they have all changed over the years. IT's possible to achieve, you just have to work at it.

there was that documentary where they took people who were skinny and gave them ludicrous diets and some of them never put on much weight.

they obviously have good genetics for keeping low bodyfat but i would think guys like that could put on next to zero muscle year on year.

take guys like drogba - naturally huge then guys like crouch - naturally skinny, put both of them in a gym and crouch could train his ass for every day for 10 years and he could only make the progress drogba would make in 3 years of going 3 days a week.
 
Caporegime
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maybe so, but i do believe there needs to be far more investigations done, all the knowledge we have on how much protein we need per day, etc is all from companies or their sponsored bodybuilders telling us we need 1g per kg or 1g per 1lb of bodyweight. then you here some people stating 1.5g per kg or lb of bodyweight.

is there any scientific proof of how much the body can use in a day? im trying to find the one done by indian scientists. im just saying that the most important factor is going to be things like test levels which is mainly influenced by your genetics or if you decide to go down another route.

explain how a guy using steroids can make more progress in 6 months (i have posted pics on here before and people were shocked at a 6 month transformation) than freefaller has made in 10 years?

thats how big a role steroids play and basically having weak genetics would hinder you a lot, as much as having good genetics would make a world of difference.

nobody can refute this, BIC3P say's he is natural and is probably one of the biggest on here and what age is he? 19?
 
Soldato
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Yes but this surely goes against what UE has said before. Just cos your maintenance kcals are say 2500 that doesn't mean 3000 will be enough to make you grow. You might need 3500, or even 4000. But this is the minority of people.

Yes you take the one or two studies that prove your case if you want and say at makes it fact. Or you can go by the hundreds upon hundreds of studies proving the age old notion that eating lots of food and training lots will make you put on mass.
 
Caporegime
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this is how i would rate them

genetics > training > diet

in regards to putting on muscle mass, you need all 3 but they are the importance of each in in regards to each other.

for example you cannot build muscle by having amazing genetics and sitting on the couch all day, same as sitting on the couch and taking steroids, but i do believe having a good genetic base is the most important thing.

a guy with a bad genetic base will need to put in 10 times as much effort into his training and diet.
 
Soldato
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Sonny, there have been loads of independent studies which show how varying protein intakes affect synthesis of muscle tissue etc. I will try to find them later when I have a bit more time.

I believe you've read quite a lot of Martin Berkhan's articles, right? I'm sure he's sited many in lots of his works.

I do agree with you that genetics play a part. Also contrary to what you've just said, some people ARE able to build muscle with close to zero training! Freaks of nature, sure. But these people are few and far between. I'm still adamant that 95%+ people who train will make similar gains if they followed proper routines and diet regimens. These routines and diets may not be the same, and may have to be altered if they have an abnormally high metabolic rate for example (as a result of their genetics), but they will make gains all the same and aren't hindered by 'poor' genes.
 
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Caporegime
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everybody will make gains, it's just that the amount of gains they make will surely be subject to the amount of test, etc they have which is based on your genetics mainly (unless you "cheat").

like i say some guys will make more mass in 3 years than others in say 10 years.

as you get older the harder it gets too, basically the right age to start would be 15/16 and nail your diet at the same time too.

im trying to learn as much info as i can here so i can pass it on to my son's, so they don't make any of the "many" mistakes i have made. but i do believe genes will play a role in that too, but it's something i have "zero" control over.
 
Associate
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Do you have a link to those?

If not then don't worry i'll have a search for them later.

Loads of stuff in his mobility thread:

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18268152

The videos on the first page posted by djdom56 I have found really useful.

http://youtu.be/5EiUquYdyPU
http://youtu.be/DoXIIVywwic
http://youtu.be/UY31J5BeKrg

I didn't really know I had problems until I tried these stretches. My whole left side is sooo much tighter than my right. The first video has really helped me to get more depth. I don't use the band though.
 
Man of Honour
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Never heard of that routine but I'd guess it's designed for bodybuilders so I'd avoid it.

Have you considered Wendlers 5/3/1? Might peak at the right time for your comp.
Yeah it is quite bodybuilder-y, but with the right weights this will help me recondition my tissues (in the same way as HST's 15 rep phase). I won't lose any strength on it, but it should be a nice light phase and so allow my body to get used to the changes that have happened in my shoulders and ankle. If I do it it'll only be for 2 weeks, then I'm planning on going on to Kort's 3x3, which will be this:

Code:
               Day(s)   Lift   Sets   Reps    Weight       
             Mon/Wed/Fri   Bench   6 to 8   6   80       
             Mon/Wed/Fri   Squat   5 to 8   5   137.5       
             Mon/Wed/Fri   Deadlift   5 to 8   5   147.5       
  
             Mon/Wed/Fri   Bench   6 to 8   6   82.5       
             Mon/Wed/Fri   Squat   5 to 8   5   142.5       
             Mon/Wed/Fri   Deadlift   5 to 8   5   152.5       
  
             Mon/Wed/Fri   Bench   6 to 8   6   85       
             Mon/Wed/Fri   Squat   5 to 8   5   147.5       
             Mon/Wed/Fri   Deadlift   5 to 8   5   157.5       
  
             Mon/Wed/Fri   Bench   6 to 8   6   87.5       
             Mon/Wed/Fri   Squat   5 to 8   5   152.5       
             Mon/Wed/Fri   Deadlift   5 to 8   5   162.5
...for 4 weeks and then this:
Code:
  Day     Sets/Reps   Bench   Squat   Dead       
  
Mon   5X4, 3X3, 2X1   82.5   142.5   202.5       
Wed   2X1, 3X3, 3X3   110   142.5   152.5       
Fri   5X4, 2X1, 3X3   82.5   190   152.5       
  
Mon   5X4, 3X3, 2X1   82.5   142.5   215       
Wed   2X1, 3X3, 3X3   117.5   142.5   152.5       
Fri   5X4, 2X1, 3X3   82.5   202.5   152.5       
  
Mon   5X4, 3X3, 2X1   82.5   142.5   227.5       
Wed   2X1, 3X3, 3X3   125   142.5   152.5       
Fri   5X4, 2X1, 3X3   82.5   215   152.5       
  
Mon   5X4, 3X3, 2X1   82.5   142.5   240       
Wed   2X1, 3X3, 3X3   132.5   142.5   152.5      
Fri   5X4, 2X1, 3X3   82.5   227.5   152.5
...for another 4 weeks. So again quite a light start; for weeks of what would be speed work if it wasn't for the slightly higher reps.

5/3/1 is great, my brother is going to start a variation of it soon. Maybe I should consider running it for a while at some point though... The problem isn't peaking for this end of Jan comp, it's making weight. The qualifying total for the 82.5kg class is only 490, so I'd qualify with 180/110/200 which aren't even 5 rep maxes. There are plenty of others I can do and still qualify for nationals.
google "Bodybuilding Tip: Why Are Dudes In Prison So Yoked ?!??"

basically they are saying it's not worth taking supplements or training your ass off every day and being pedantic about form, etc, because the amount you can grow and your full potential is based on your genetics not what you eat or do.

i believe this to be true, some guys go in the gym every day and do not grow at all, same size in 5 years time, other guys go 2 or 3 times a week and are jacked, basically genetics > all.

you cant change your genetics.

so dont worry too much about things just enjoy doing what your doing, chances are it will make next to zero difference if you have poor genetics if you don't do everything 100% right.

it's probably the reason why i have always had huge ass legs and had problems driving cars and getting jeans even when i never ever trained legs. my leg genetics are just insane. same goes for my shoulders but the rest is fairly average or less than average.

these twins even though they are twins have different genetics one of them has perfect abs and the other has wonky abs, see their other video on genetics for more info.

some solid real info from these two.
No, this is just silly.

Their videos aren't actually terrible, advice is sometimes wrong though.

Sonny, the problem you seem to be experiencing is that YOU aren't making gains, and so you're trying to find excuses.

I'm just going to throw this out there, believe it or don't: you don't know **** about how your genetics affect your "gains", strength, muscle or whatever.

There are guys out there who have muscle without doing much work in the gym, and that IS down to genetics and lifestyle. But the amount of people that are actually limited by their genetics at a beginners level is a lot less than you seem to be suggesting. At an elite level genetics certainly come into play, otherwise the olympics would be pretty boring.

Give me a complete gym newbie and let me have complete control over his lifestyle (including diet, rest, etc.) and training, and I'd bet he'd grow. The other experienced guys on here could do the same thing. What limits noobs is that they're normally doing something wrong that they didn't even know was a factor.

There are so many factors involved in muscle growth, it's very easy to get one wrong without even realising it. What you can do though, is do your best to mitigate as many limiting factors as possible:

Training - choose a simple routine that involves progression. Intensity needs to be high, form needs to be at least half good.

Diet - you need "enough" protein and calories. Simple way to achieve this is to have around 200g of protein, then fit your fat and carbs around that into a calorie total that you've worked out. Eat plenty of fats, sources of vits/minerals, and drink lots of water. Supplement any of these you need to.

Rest - sleep as close to 8 hours a night as you can. Try to reduce sources of stress as much as possible.
Do you have a link to those?

If not then don't worry i'll have a search for them later.
http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showpost.php?p=19584971&postcount=68


edit: slooooow post

edit2: tried to make my post make some sense, I was distracted at the time
 
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Caporegime
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Really like the look of that. Love squatting 3 times a week at varying degrees of intensity so I imagine it'll be pretty easy to do all three using the same approach. Would love to take it one step further and try squatting 4 times a week with Smolov but I'm saving that for a time when I pick up an injury that stops me doing other exercises.

Might try something like that or 5/3/1 once I've ironed out my weak points. Need to get my speed and posterior chain up to scratch before looking at anything else so that'll be my aim for the next 2 months.
 
Associate
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Weighed myself today after the 1month period, lost 9 pounds over the 27days. Literally been beasting the muscles, no cardio.

Now I'm going to move onto cardio from Wednesday once my exams finished so I hope to get down yo 170lb by around March/April
 
Man of Honour
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Really like the look of that. Love squatting 3 times a week at varying degrees of intensity so I imagine it'll be pretty easy to do all three using the same approach. Would love to take it one step further and try squatting 4 times a week with Smolov but I'm saving that for a time when I pick up an injury that stops me doing other exercises.

Might try something like that or 5/3/1 once I've ironed out my weak points. Need to get my speed and posterior chain up to scratch before looking at anything else so that'll be my aim for the next 2 months.
Yeah training all three lifts 3x a week like that is a big change up for me, so hopefully I'll see some results.

Here's a link to the spreadsheet I'm using for Kort's 3x3:
http://www.joeskopec.com/3X3.xls

and the full program explanation:
http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/korte1.htm
 
Caporegime
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everybody will make gains, it's just that the amount of gains they make will surely be subject to the amount of test, etc they have which is based on your genetics mainly (unless you "cheat").

like i say some guys will make more mass in 3 years than others in say 10 years.

as you get older the harder it gets too, basically the right age to start would be 15/16 and nail your diet at the same time too.

im trying to learn as much info as i can here so i can pass it on to my son's, so they don't make any of the "many" mistakes i have made. but i do believe genes will play a role in that too, but it's something i have "zero" control over.

But it's a pointless debate.

Everyone has different genes, some people will gain quicker than others with a set routine....If that's the case and you're not gaining, you need to look at EVERYTHING that you are doing and see what needs to change.

As has already been said which you've ignored, everyone has different maintenance levels, everyone has different 'muscle gaining' levels. Someone can eat 3000 calories a day and become a beef monkey, other will need to eat 4000+.
 
Associate
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I've only been weight training a few months and I put on quite a bit of mass in that time while trying to keep my cal intake as low as possible but I couldn't stop my love and cravings for pasta every few nights =P I was on a few different supplements so that proberly helped. I have quite good bulid genetics tho, big legs shoulders and arms, think all over maybe thats why i struggle to lose fat :(just the height isn't very good (5,6 / 5,7) have to bloody stand on something as I'm around an inch too short to reach the pull up bar on the powerrack -.- I would give up my strength to be taller tho :(
 
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