*** The 2012 Gym Rats Thread ***

[SMed]

yeah, i dont consider myself anywhere above intermediate at best, my lifts are average for a gym goer natty or not, its a fine line tho before average lifts become above average. I think most trainers with dedication would reach where i am now, its where you go beyond that level that matters.

My own opinion is that an OHP of 100Kg bench of 120kg squat of 150 and dead of 200kg, is just about the starting point for a gym goer to be out of that 'beginner' phase. To some degree i think this is bodyweight irrelevant too, these are about the weights where the body is under pressure from the sheer mass. 150KG on my back still feels damn heavy despite the fact i can rep it with some comfort. A 120 bench still feels strenuous to take off the catchers despite it being close to a warm up weight. These weights are all at or above the typical human bodyweight give or take around 10kg's and at this point the ability to move them becomes about something else, something the body is not programmed from birth to ever do. Once you exceed this natural barrier, imo, you move into the intermediate class. Not until you are in the competitive weights range of 50% or so more weight do i feel you class as advanced. Thats my rating anyway.

It depends on how you define these sort of things. I think it's too problematic to start defining your level of lifting in terms of hard numbers, as this doesn't take into account bodyweight.

Defining advancement in terms of multiples of bw lifted is a bit better for obvious reasons, but then you run into some problems comparing very heavy lifters with very light lifters. You also will have some problems with people that are just very genetically strong right from the beginning. Everyone's heard of some guy that walks in a deadlift an insane amount of weight his first time ever. Is he more advanced that the guy that has been working hard for 5 years yet is still pulling 20kg less? Who's the beginner there?

I've always preferred to define beginner/intermediate/advanced lifters in terms of progress. If someone can walk in a lift heavier every single time they attempt a lift, without any sort of periodisation (etc) then they're at a more beginner level. If you're PBing 3 times a week for months on end, you can only really do that as a beginner. Once you start needing to have light/recovery sessions you start moving into intermediate level. PBs come a little fewer now, maybe once every week or every other week. Advanced lifters are the guys that may only PB a couple of times a year at best (assuming consistent training).

Anyway, that's how I learnt it.

 

[Deception]

Eat more.

Not a bad idea!

531 does take it out of you, more sleep really helps.

Yea, its been a strange week. Normally I can get up and be ready to dive in to a workout (after warming up of course ). Just had a dodgy week this time around. Maybe food and more sleep is the answer (stupid body clock waking me up at 5am!).

Did try moving my workouts in to the evening, but didnt have much effect. Ah well **** happens. Will rest up and get my maxes sorted next week!

 

[Ultra_Extreme]

It depends on how you define these sort of things. I think it's too problematic to start defining your level of lifting in terms of hard numbers, as this doesn't take into account bodyweight.

I dont think bodyweight has that much to do with it, perhaps when very below average say 60kg or less, but often that is balanced out with shorter limbs and levers meaning better compound lifting

Defining advancement in terms of multiples of bw lifted is a bit better for obvious reasons, but then you run into some problems comparing very heavy lifters with very light lifters.

The reality remains that this only factors into begginner and early intermediate lifters, most heavy lifters are heavy because they are fat and light lifters are light because they are skinny. As muscle growth/fat loss are achieved the two close the gap

You also will have some problems with people that are just very genetically strong right from the beginning. Everyone's heard of some guy that walks in a deadlift an insane amount of weight his first time ever. Is he more advanced that the guy that has been working hard for 5 years yet is still pulling 20kg less? Who's the beginner there?

No ive never heard this. Ive heard of the guy who benches 100kg within weeks of getting on the bench, and sure ive seen guys deadlift over 100kg without any practice. But no ones starting strength genetically varies by more than a few percent. If it does it isnt genetics its something in their life that has trained them in some way. Dont kid yourself that there is anyone out there untrained who walks in a gym and deadlifts 200kg, the only people who might would be labourers or farmers or some other manual work employed soul. There is no other mythical genetic marvel.

I've always preferred to define beginner/intermediate/advanced lifters in terms of progress. If someone can walk in a lift heavier every single time they attempt a lift, without any sort of periodisation (etc) then they're at a more beginner level. If you're PBing 3 times a week for months on end, you can only really do that as a beginner. Once you start needing to have light/recovery sessions you start moving into intermediate level. PBs come a little fewer now, maybe once every week or every other week. Advanced lifters are the guys that may only PB a couple of times a year at best (assuming consistent training).

That only relates to how close they are to their own personal limits, these could be psychological limits, if i was training someone and they werent hitting 'my' definition of intermediate before hitting your definition then there is something wrong with them, probably in the head, that is stopping them progressing. Remember most people truly fail at weight training due to mental weakness. I have had sessions where i have involountarily sobbed after putting the bar down (breifly mind not bridget jones style) due to the sheer exertion involved (usually a superset). Most struggle to break a sweat.

At least thats how i see it

 

[N19h7m4r3]

Eat more.

I agree! Tonight it's roast chicken, loads of veg and salad and a few garlic breads. I'm so hungry right now I feel like falling over.


In relation to yesterday's light leg day, "Do 60 reps of lunges they said, it's easy they said" my poor glutes feel like tearing apart.

Foam rolling was horrible today haha. Plenty more lunges from now on.

 

[SMed]

I dont think bodyweight has that much to do with it, perhaps when very below average say 60kg or less, but often that is balanced out with shorter limbs and levers meaning better compound lifting

Yet heavier lifters are still stronger than lighter lifters... not sure what you mean here.

The reality remains that this only factors into begginner and early intermediate lifters, most heavy lifters are heavy because they are fat and light lifters are light because they are skinny. As muscle growth/fat loss are achieved the two close the gap

Not really, it's a very well established observation that lighter lifters have better strength:weight ratios. In fact, this is so well known I'm beginning to think I've misunderstood what you're trying to say.

No ive never heard this. Ive heard of the guy who benches 100kg within weeks of getting on the bench, and sure ive seen guys deadlift over 100kg without any practice. But no ones starting strength genetically varies by more than a few percent. If it does it isnt genetics its something in their life that has trained them in some way. Dont kid yourself that there is anyone out there untrained who walks in a gym and deadlifts 200kg, the only people who might would be labourers or farmers or some other manual work employed soul. There is no other mythical genetic marvel.

I've taught some guys that pulled 160-170 on their first session at a sub 70kg bodyweight, and it took me nearly a year to get that. It was very annoying, I promise you, lol. Andy bolted squatted 500lbs and pulled 600lbs the first time he set foot in a gym at the age of 18. I think he was just a lorry driver or something. He was just ****ing strong.

That only relates to how close they are to their own personal limits, these could be psychological limits, if i was training someone and they werent hitting 'my' definition of intermediate before hitting your definition then there is something wrong with them, probably in the head, that is stopping them progressing. Remember most people truly fail at weight training due to mental weakness. I have had sessions where i have involountarily sobbed after putting the bar down (breifly mind not bridget jones style) due to the sheer exertion involved (usually a superset). Most struggle to break a sweat.

And yep, that is one (of many) reason(s) people sometimes struggle with progression. And more advanced people will often be tougher mentally and more emotional about it sometimes. Yet like I said, advanced lifters will struggle to make as many PBs as a beginner. A beginner will barely give a ****, and still PB every session. This is what makes him a beginner.

At least thats how i see it

Like I said, anyone can define these terms how they like. Each way has their pros and cons.

 

[Ultra_Extreme]

i still think you put a lot of emphasis on bodyweight, not really sure why fundamentally a fat 6' guy should lift much more than a lean 6' guy, in fact id go so far as to say there really isnt any. Now u get a lean 100kg guy vs a lean 80kg guy and theres a distinct difference but i fail to see what effect the fat tissue is having on lifting capacity

 

[DanH84]

Hi,

I'm after a 4 day split currently. Can work out Mon-Fri. I'm trying to think about the best way to do things because I'd like to go for about 2x a week frequency on each bodypart.

I'm thinking something along the lines of:

Monday: Heavy Lower
Tuesday: Lighter Upper
Wed: Off
Thurs: Lighter Lower
Friday: Heavy Upper

Rep Range 6-8 and 10-12 Heavy - Light

I would quite like a bit of advice though. Exercise selection on different days etc.

Ty for any help.

 

[SMed]

i still think you put a lot of emphasis on bodyweight, not really sure why fundamentally a fat 6' guy should lift much more than a lean 6' guy, in fact id go so far as to say there really isnt any. Now u get a lean 100kg guy vs a lean 80kg guy and theres a distinct difference but i fail to see what effect the fat tissue is having on lifting capacity

There are a number of reasons. (none of which have anything to do with the current discussion, but it's still an interesting digression)

All things equal, a fat guy is stronger than a skinny guy. Take two identical twins, make one eat to obesity, even if both never train, the obese one will have more muscle and be stronger. Eating is anabolic in its own right. Fat doesn't lift the weight, but that sort of physiological environment is conducive to laying down muscle, even if you don't lift. It's not that far fetched, even if untrained guys that go on gear without ever lifting will still be stronger just due to being in that anabolic environment (not that anyone would ever do this, this is just what's been observed in studies).

Not only that, but being bigger just gives you better leverage. I see lots of people mention leverages in terms of being bigger and stronger, but I don't think most knows what this means. Think about the knee joint for example. The muscle belly of the quads on a skinny person will be quite flat and close to the bone. The angle created across the joint to the lower legs will be quite acute. Now take a fat person with big chunky quads, even with the same amount of muscle (theoretically). The muscle belly is higher up away from the femur and is pulling the lower leg from across the joint with a more obtuse/open angle. This is a big advantage.

Having bigger legs gives you a better angle, therefore better levers.

 

[Begbie]

Do 5/3/1 + BBB @40%. Throw in core and mobility work its enough to burn you out. If you can only do 3 days miss out Military press, that's what I've been doing the past two months because the gym wasn't open on a Tuesday

Or do Miltary Press on squat or deadlift day.

Military Press?

Thought it was meant to be Bench, Deads, Sqaut and OHP?

Used to do Military Press a lot, mostly as I had never heard of OHP.

On my way to do some deads;

85.00
100.00
112.50

3x5 week Hoping for 9/10 on the last set. For those doing 5/3/1 do you do a few warm up sets first?

I normally do 2-3 sets of 60 before starting. Does anyone do any different?

 

[LiE]

OHP yea.

Week 3 OHP done, felt pretty good! Managed 67.5kg for 8 clean reps.

 

[Fireskull]

Why are my deadlifts so bad
Can I give them up and still progress nicely lol?

My lower back is sore and I'm pretty sure I kept it straight :/ and this is only 100kg, pitiful I think considering I can do 80kg BOR, and most other back workouts I am doing the same or more weigh than bigger guys I have trained with, damn deadlift is getting to me now
Maybe I am destined to have a weak lower back and stronger upper?

 

[Delvis]

Do you have a video?

 

[Fireskull]

I have this one from April this year, and posted it here then.
I will try and get another next week, I have pretty much given it up for about 6 weeks to be honest and have returned to it the last few weeks, because I have progresses a lot everywhere else I was hoping (quite naively) that for some reason it would be easier again...

I need to come along to the next gym meet and get some help of you guys!

 

[Delvis]

Hah, 3 secs?

Are you bracing your core? It should be locked throughout.
Keep your lats tight and pulled back.
Shoulders back.
You see your arse lift first in that vid, try and keep the chest up...Although some people deadlift like that fine.
Hump the bar at the top, get those glutes working baby!!!

Then again, I'm recovering from back pains still and my deadlift has only recently been worked on, so take my advice as you will

 

[DogsBody]

since when was 3 years lifting make someone intermediate to advanced? Maybe 5+ years 'maybe' presuming it isnt 5+ years lifting roughly the same amount lol. Isnt it when you lift bodyweight in all compound lifts and double bodyweight in any 2 that you become intermediate technically?

Ok fair enough i accept that I am not an advanced lifter, but after 3 years I would hardly say I am a beginner either, but by your definition I am not even intermediate.

When you refer to how much someone can lift are you talking about 1RM ?
I rarely do 1RM as I am not that interested in them (don't know if this is the wrong way to look at it or not please feel free to give me the reasoning behind it) I tend to just try and beat my last session all the time, be it more reps or more weight.

I couldn't honestly tell you what my 1RM is in anything other than DL, and my 1RM DL was quite a few weeks ago now.

What I have done wrong so far.
1 - didn't train DL full time until about a year ago, so in relation to my bench/squat it is low.
2 - didn't go deep enough with my squats, but was almost there so over the last 6 - 8 weeks I have been going deeper and I think I am back to the same weight I was at before.
3 - arched my back to much when doing OHP and subsequently my technique was reliant on this arch, I still struggle to keep my back very straight but is better than before, result weight has dropped right off here, I can actually lift more doing seated dumbell press.
I used to use a belt but after taking advice from this forum it was suggested that I lose the belt so I did.
I would be intrested to see a video on perfect form (with a good explanation) on OHP, I have watched the ones in the thread on here and I found that they didn't show you the side view which is where I want to see the most.
4 - didn't concentrate on certain muscle groups as much as I should have done initially which put the weights of certain lifts behind slightly, now I am doing it right they are moving up in relation to the ones that were done right form start, but they are a little behind where they perhaps should be, DL being one of them,

so now I can squat the same as I DL.
a few weeks ago i DL 160kg for 1 rep using just chalk, prior to that I managed 2 reps but was using straps.
I managed 3 reps of 160 on squat BUT that was before I changed my technique, I am just finishing a 4x12 rep program this week and then I am back to a strength program so I am hoping I can match that with my new and improved deeper squats.

 

[DogsBody]

If you have been lifting a while then 1x5 deadlifts will not be enough for you tbh.

If you can do stronglifts workout in 15 mins then you aren't lifting heavy enough, simple

the strong lifts routine says it is one exercise per session of 5 sets of 5 reps, is that right ?

how the heck can you make that last longer than 15 minutes ?

1 warm up set - 60s
rest - 2m
1st set 60s
rest - 2m
2nd set - 60s
rest - 2m
3rd set - 60s
rest - 2m
4th set - 60s

DONE, total time = 13 minutes ???

 

[Djdom56]

Hah, 3 secs?

Are you bracing your core? It should be locked throughout.
Keep your lats tight and pulled back.
Shoulders back.
You see your arse lift first in that vid, try and keep the chest up...Although some people deadlift like that fine.
Hump the bar at the top, get those glutes working baby!!!

Then again, I'm recovering from back pains still and my deadlift has only recently been worked on, so take my advice as you will

You got it right if you ask me.

Then only other thing is to make sure that you aren't yanking off the floor. You want to get tension off the bar so that you don't suddenly meet resistance when you pick it up. Essentially apply about 90% of the force require to get it off the floor then when you are ready to pull put the extra 10% in and push the floor away. As Delvis says make sure you are firing your glutes properly, the best way to do so is to slam your hips forward as hard as possible as if you are humping the bar .

 

[Cristian]

Managed 2 reps of 80kg HC2PP yesterday, really chuffed with that considering it's 95% strength and 5% technique the way I did it.

 

[Delvis]

You got it right if you ask me.

Then only other thing is to make sure that you aren't yanking off the floor. You want to get tension off the bar so that you don't suddenly meet resistance when you pick it up. Essentially apply about 90% of the force require to get it off the floor then when you are ready to pull put the extra 10% in and push the floor away. As Delvis says make sure you are firing your glutes properly, the best way to do so is to slam your hips forward as hard as possible as if you are humping the bar .

Sweet

Been trying to note down the points from when I came over...But as you say, keep tension off the bar, hurts otherwise

 

[Djdom56]

the strong lifts routine says it is one exercise per session of 5 sets of 5 reps, is that right ?

how the heck can you make that last longer than 15 minutes ?

1 warm up set - 60s
rest - 2m
1st set 60s
rest - 2m
2nd set - 60s
rest - 2m
3rd set - 60s
rest - 2m
4th set - 60s

DONE, total time = 13 minutes ???

Well firstly that lay out would be for 4x5 not 5x5. You don't include you warmup in the set count.

Then you can do more things on top of the primary movement for that day. For example if you are squatting why don't you throw in some core work after along with some over head stuff and maybe some arms if you are so inclined.

Also don't do stronglifts for more than about 3 months. It's not a very good routine unless you are an absolute beginner, and make sure you start out on the lightest weight.

Actually 3 months is kind of pulled out of my ass, just make sure when you are adding weight you form doesn't degrade. If you haven't been able to move the target weight for more that two attempts, either, stop and try a new program, or, stop and take the weight down 10-20% and start the progression again.