*** The 2012 Gym Rats Thread ***

[Freefaller]

There is some research to show, that even if you're able to rep increasing amounts of your 1RM, you may not be able to lift a higher 1RM, cannot remember the name of the author, but will have to find it. It sort of makes sense though - as the max effort increases, if you look at the area under the graph, it becomes significantly harder, and the effort required isn't a linear relationship - it's not exponential (though potentially could be), it is potentially asymptotic, but definitely not linear.

 

[Delvis]

I just enjoy lifting really, I hate Wednesdays (rest day) I just go home and slob about

 

[Morba]

There is some research to show, that even if you're able to rep increasing amounts of your 1RM, you may not be able to lift a higher 1RM, cannot remember the name of the author, but will have to find it. It sort of makes sense though - as the max effort increases, if you look at the area under the graph, it becomes significantly harder, and the effort required isn't a linear relationship - it's not exponential (though potentially could be), it is potentially asymptotic, but definitely not linear.

Interesting one that, I generally look to be able to rep my current max before trying a new max.

 

[Freefaller]

Yeah - but there is a finite amount of increase possible. Sure records are constantly being broken, but more and more by tiny incremental amounts.

 

[opethdisciple]

Depends on what you start like and your goal.
Then add in your dedication, as you could be hitting the weights and spending as much time in the pool as you want but if the hard work isn't done it will take longer.

How do you look now and what's your goal physique?

Well where am I starting from.

I have low muscle mass. For instance I can only bench around 20kg added to the bar.

Shoulder press is about 5.5kg added to the bar, etc...

So I'm skinny, but do have mediterranean spread on my stomach, which means at the moment my aim is to lose fat.

When I do my swimming, I try to do as many lapse as possible. But fitness will improve through practice.

I do come out of the pool exhausted, and only stopped last time round, when I started getting cramp in my foot. (was close to 45mins anyway)

Diet is one thing that isnt great, but I have cleaned it up.

At the moment, my thoughts are, as long as I am getting stronger and fitter, the diet is ok for the moment.

It's a typical diet, minus, cakes, chocholates, crisps etc.... I try to keep it clean and eat my proteins and greens.

 

[mrthingyx]

At the moment, my thoughts are, as long as I am getting stronger and fitter, the diet is ok for the moment.

That might be true, but it is often the very weakpoint in most regimes.

Losing weight is hard and requires discipline: often, the difference between a calorie deficit and surpluis is minimal on a given day, so you REALLY need to be careful.

As such, post a week-long food diary here as the start of your new 'log' thread, and let us help you with it.

The reason you're posting like you have over the past few months is because you're clearly not satisfied with something. As such, let this forum help you iron out any kinks, because the chances are pretty good that there is something wrong with your diet.

Regarding swimming, it's a good, low impact exercise, but it's not going to burn a huge amount of calories, in the same way that straight up cardio is a lot of work for not much calorie consumption. What sort of distance are you covering doing your 'laps'?

 

[Ultra_Extreme]

Diet is king when bit comes to reshaping, you can do all the exercise in the world but without a healthy diet see little progress.

 

[Ultra_Extreme]

As such, post a week-long food diary here as the start of your new 'log' thread, and let us help you with it.

if he actually does that i will eat my own hat, no one ever does and as a result they wonder why, a year later, they are still fat/skinny/weak

 

[opethdisciple]

That might be true, but it is often the very weakpoint in most regimes.

Losing weight is hard and requires discipline: often, the difference between a calorie deficit and surpluis is minimal on a given day, so you REALLY need to be careful.

As such, post a week-long food diary here as the start of your new 'log' thread, and let us help you with it.

The reason you're posting like you have over the past few months is because you're clearly not satisfied with something. As such, let this forum help you iron out any kinks, because the chances are pretty good that there is something wrong with your diet.

Regarding swimming, it's a good, low impact exercise, but it's not going to burn a huge amount of calories, in the same way that straight up cardio is a lot of work for not much calorie consumption. What sort of distance are you covering doing your 'laps'?

I have problems with both my knees, so thankfully swimming is pretty low impact.

As for distance covered, not sure. Pool length is medium to short.

But I do try to not rest too much, and just do breast stroke when I need a breather.

Diet wise, im being realistic tho. this whole smaller meals thing 6 times a day, doesnt fit in too my life at the moment.

I'm tied to my desk at work cant dissapear to eat 3-4 times a day at work etc etc etc...

So I eat 3 times a day.

Ok, I'll stick up a food diary, in the next few days.

 

[Delvis]

Diet wise, im being realistic tho. this whole smaller meals thing 6 times a day, doesnt fit in too my life at the moment.

I'm tied to my desk at work cant dissapear to eat 3-4 times a day at work etc etc etc...

Good job that's not really needed then

 

[DogsBody]

if he actually does that i will eat my own hat, no one ever does and as a result they wonder why, a year later, they are still fat/skinny/weak

What type of hat do you have ?
I am hoping it is a medieval iron hat?????

 

[icecold]

Opethdisciple: I know you've been given a lot of advice over the past few months, and a lot of that advice is fundamental to how you undergo your proposed transformation.

The key thing you need is motvation because:

• You need to set your diet and stick to it;
• You need to get your program and stick to it;
• And swimming is either a crud excuse for an exercise (if you sit, bobbing around in the water for X minutes) or a great workout (if you actually come out the pool exhausted. And don't reach for a Mars Bar straight afterwards).

The answer to your specific question above is "it depends," based on Morba's response, as going from skinny to 'built' can take six months for people to notice a difference, but will take about 18 months for significant muscular development. Going from overweight/obese to a similarly ripped state can take longer as the flab has to come off, first, although fat people can have bigger muscles than the average sedate person.

I would strongly advise you to start a log of your starting position and post honest updates to it on a regular basis. This will help you stick to your goals and facilitate your 'transformation'.

Yes, logging can be disheartening when little progress is made, but it will help people help you (for instance, wihere you struggle to stick to something, or you haven't made the progress you hoped for/whatever).

Do it - you won't look back.

Kudos for having the patience to persist.

Opeth, as long as you neglect to change you diet, you will not achieve your goal.

You've been pussying around for what seems like 6 months asking about training, but everyone always comes back to your diet, which you then don't change.

all this talk of lifting 200kg in the first 6 months of training is really making me doubt my deadlift ability i have been in the gym training since April 2011, i can only pull 150kg on deads.
My goals have been more about the look over the last 8 months so i expect that my progress regarding weights goes has been hampered a little, but 200kg in 6 months really?

There are a couple of reasons why you haven't:

1) You aren't training purely for strength.
2) Your diet hasn't been perfect for all of that time.
3) Your training hasn't been good for all of that time.
4) You haven't had an Eric Cressey optimising your form, identifying your weaknesses and building your programmes.

The way you're training now, you will get there, but if you were to train with someone like Eric for a few months you'd get there faster.

Indeed. I've been "sporty" all my life. A dozen years of playing rugby. Lots of rowing. Squash and basketball were 2 massive sports in my life as well. As such, my body has probably developed a more resilient approach to exercise and probably deals with it better. However, weightlifting is a discipline in it's own sense.

I honestly believe in "**** the numbers" - as long as you improve, and you get better at doing what you do. i.e. even if your weights don't increase that much, if you're able to move them more efficiently, better form, and more reps or if it becomes "easier" - then so what? Numbers are numbers. Ultimately, although my numbers may not be as big as some, I have a tremendous amount of power, which, whilst not necessarily translated into my lifting, means that I can perform at 80% of my max with relative ease. Heck even ice said, that although he can now out lift me, he still thinks in a strongman type of event he feels I'd out perform him in some aspects (I doubt that but it's kind of him to say so).

Fundamentally, it is also down to genetics, some people will always be big boned, large mass type of individuals able to do certain things well. Some will be the same, but be totally opposite in their abilities. Some will be slim and waif like, but control phenomenal amounts of power / strength, relative to what they "look" like.

It's a bitch, but a more "alpha" male in the genetic sense, will with the same training, outperform a lesser male (in terms of genetic capacity). All things being equal in terms of diet, training intensity and so on. These are just the facts. It's not fair maybe, but that's nature.

It's up to you to define, what you're willing to achieve. I know I'll never hit 300kg on deads - I have the capacity for it I'm sure, but I don't have the will power, time, or dedication to do it. However, you may have the determination to do so and as such will achieve it - or you will also accept that there are some limits to your ability.

The world's strongest men, are all genetic freaks - sure there are artificial enhancements too - however, as a base, they are genetically superior in terms of muscle, size and ability. You can't judge yourself against someone else - it's just unfair on you.

Some people will be the strongest, some will be the brightest, some will be the more fertile... it's just the way of the world. Natural selection and so on.

As long as you give it 100% effort and you are patient and work hard you will progress. IT will be finite - make no illusions about that. However, so what? Just better yourself and keep at it.

*like*

A history of sports can help massively. Every movement you make that requires high performance functional output is teaching your body to move efficiently. This primarily means how to use your core, big joints and associated musculature to stabilise and produce power. If you haven't learnt this during your natural development, it's going to take you longer to get strong in the gym. For many this increased time is enough to demotivate.

 

[Ultra_Extreme]

I have problems with both my knees, so thankfully swimming is pretty low impact.

Most peoples knee trouble is a result of avoiding high impact exercise and obviously being overweight. So often i see people say exactl;y what you have and take swimming as the 'easy' way out well swimming or cycling which is even worse.

As for distance covered, not sure. Pool length is medium to short.

what the hell is this? you dont have any record of how much work you have done, so you cannot be sure to do more next session, if you continue to be this vague in your methods you wont get anywhere at all.

But I do try to not rest too much, and just do breast stroke when I need a breather.

see above, this is NOT how you exercise if you want to progress, this is how you get to the pool bar at the carribean resort.

Diet wise, im being realistic tho. this whole smaller meals thing 6 times a day, doesnt fit in too my life at the moment.

You will find very few people who are not personal trainers or working at the BBC who think 6 small meals per day is any kind of diet at all. Eating a little regularily, whilst possibly a good idea for some, is a rather outmoded diet idea and not great at all for weight loss (mainly because most people cannot handle the concept of little and eat far too much far too often) for weight loss at your level you should be looking at very light meals in the day, cutting carbs out completely or at least until an evening meal which should be balanced and clean, you MUST count your calories and weigh your food.

I'm tied to my desk at work cant dissapear to eat 3-4 times a day at work etc etc etc...

See above

So I eat 3 times a day.

fine but what and how much EXACTLY not 'ish'

Ok, I'll stick up a food diary, in the next few days.

good, i like hats!

 

[Skillmister]

Strong posts today UE Telling it like it is.

 

[Syla5]

There are a couple of reasons why you haven't:

1) You aren't training purely for strength.
2) Your diet hasn't been perfect for all of that time.
3) Your training hasn't been good for all of that time.
4) You haven't had an Eric Cressey optimising your form, identifying your weaknesses and building your programmes.

The way you're training now, you will get there, but if you were to train with someone like Eric for a few months you'd get there faster.

Firstly, i love how you are straight to the point, and that you remember my training an diet, one of the reasons i love this forum, members like you, steedie, ff and many many more, actually show an interest in peoples history/progression

So would you imply that 200kg is something i could achive within the next 6 months/year?

Lets just go with my current limitations, only being able to train 3 days a week for 1.5 hours a time. Wanting to stay asthetically reasonable. I would prefer to stay around the level of leanness i am at now, maybe 12-14% bf currently.

How would i go about achieveing such a task? What training would you suggest? Is this even a feasible task given my own limitations above? If not, what do you think would be feasible If you think an email response would be better my email is in trust, or if your happy to reply here on in my log that would definatly be appreciated.

My current year end goals are looking out of reach but i still have a month to go so we shall see, maybe i need to review what i am doing to get the best out of myself.

 

[Morba]

Firstly, i love how you are straight to the point, and that you remember my training an diet, one of the reasons i love this forum, members like you, steedie, ff and many many more, actually show an interest in peoples history/progression

So would you imply that 200kg is something i could achive within the next 6 months/year?

Lets just go with my current limitations, only being able to train 3 days a week for 1.5 hours a time. Wanting to stay asthetically reasonable. I would prefer to stay around the level of leanness i am at now, maybe 12-14% bf currently.

Those are excuses for not trying hard enough, they are not limitations

 

[iamtheoneneo]

guys can some one link me to a lifting tracker - i cant remember the one thats linked here often and need to stop using my phone to record my lifting

 

[Delvis]

Most peoples knee trouble is a result of avoiding high impact exercise and obviously being overweight. So often i see people say exactl;y what you have and take swimming as the 'easy' way out well swimming or cycling which is even worse.

I believe he actually has issues with his knees ie cartilage or something. No idea though.

Saying that, your first sentence is bang on, I used to have knee issues where walking would make them hurt. All started with skateboarding. Now however, since squatting my knees are miles better and I rarely get pain, only ever get it now through prolonged high impact cardio.

 

[icecold]

Firstly, i love how you are straight to the point, and that you remember my training an diet, one of the reasons i love this forum, members like you, steedie, ff and many many more, actually show an interest in peoples history/progression

So would you imply that 200kg is something i could achive within the next 6 months/year?

Lets just go with my current limitations, only being able to train 3 days a week for 1.5 hours a time. Wanting to stay asthetically reasonable. I would prefer to stay around the level of leanness i am at now, maybe 12-14% bf currently.

How would i go about achieveing such a task? What training would you suggest? Is this even a feasible task given my own limitations above? If not, what do you think would be feasible If you think an email response would be better my email is in trust, or if your happy to reply here on in my log that would definatly be appreciated.

My current year end goals are looking out of reach but i still have a month to go so we shall see, maybe i need to review what i am doing to get the best out of myself.

It's also partly because I'm a massive nerd

Provided that you can keep hitting the sweet spot in your form that you found recently, I'm sure you could hit 200kg in just over 6 months from now.

You really shouldn't be hard on yourself here, for your bodyweight you're already better than average. There is so much technical nuance going on that it can take years to understand how to identify your own weaknesses. Some people are lucky in that their weaknesses are directly hit by very conventional training, the rest of us have to think outside the box.

Actually, I'm somewhat lucky with my squat. I could more or less keep squatting in sensible rep ranges and still make strength gains until 240-250kg (WILD guess here!), but that is down to happening upon a style that works. When I had my bad ankle sprain which caused my form to drift without realising, zero gains were had until I fixed the problem (in fact I definitely got weaker). Then there's my deadlift and bench, which if you've followed my training you'd know has required all kinds of tom-****ery to get moving.

I try my best to give my take on the really technical stuff from looking at videos, but there is only so much that can be done without a lot more time and effort (which is how Cressey et al. can charge what they do for distance coaching!). Contrast this with a pole-vaulter who I've been training who increased his deadlift from 120-170kg in a month, and compared to Cressey I'm a moron

Before I get too lost in irrelevancies, the point I'm trying to make is that you are best sticking to good cookie cutter programmes. HST, 531, etc., will never be optimal in terms of the rate of progress you make, but they are excellent for keeping some training fundamentals moving in the right direction. The framework these types of routine provide allows the attentive person to slowly become their own coach in terms of form and weaknesses, and there is plenty of room for tailoring assistance work to your needs.

 

[MoNkeE]

I believe he actually has issues with his knees ie cartilage or something. No idea though.