*** The 2012 Gym Rats Thread ***

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Its effect on multivitamins will first rely on the acceptance that multivitamins actually work at all.... thats a whole other debate. Now when it comes to toxic levels of a drug that article is a bit misleading, lets take paracetamol, if you took 4 pills (2g active drug) in normal circumstances you would be advised to go to A+E, so just imagine if you took them with grapefruit!! EXCEPT the reason you can easily overdose on oral medication is that it is LIVER TOXIC the actual amount of paracetamol you could administer intravenously is far higher over 4g iirc. Since the grapefruit is apparently inhibiting the breakdown of the drug then we are making some serious leaps of logic here.

First, is the drug actually overdosed in order to compensate for the degradation in the liver?
Second, is that dosing such that it would be blood toxic from a normal dose?
Third, is the way the drug is manipulated by the liver in any way related to the potency?
Fourth, Could the liver inhibition actually reduce liver toxicity as less damage is done by and to the compound?

There are so many complexities here that without studies it is hard to be sure, however, based on pure logic, if this was a huge problem we would be well aware of it by now and i am very reluctant to read much into a cherry picked headline grabbing piece of BBC pseudo science
 
:o

Basically, for food supplements, negligible (if any) effects - but interesting to see some research on it.

For "proper" drugs (i.e. prescription or strong anti inflammatory/pain relief or antibiotics and such like) then the effect can be serious.

Basically, grapefruit enzyme stops your own enzymes from reacting with the drug = higher dose of the drug enters the blood stream because liver doesn't break it down, ergo acts like an overdose.

By injecting or bypassing the liver, you don't get that issue.
 
most drugs dont resist liver damage by simply being stronger, most have sacrificial components that, for want of a better analogy, occupy the livers attention, while the active compound passes through
 
Edit: Beaten again... Really am slow today... Jeeze, maybe I do need to get off the smith xD

Will, if you want, I can see if I have access to any journals. Just send me links to them in trust, and I'll email the pdf backs if I've got access.

kd
 
This is my understanding:

Ultra_Extreme said:
First, is the drug actually overdosed in order to compensate for the degradation in the liver? From what the article and my basic knowledge suggests is that yes? However, that's the thing I couldn't work out....
Second, is that dosing such that it would be blood toxic from a normal dose?Bypassing 1st pass seems to have less of an effect - so I guess not? What do you think?
Third, is the way the drug is manipulated by the liver in any way related to the potency?I would say it's how the drug was designed to react WITH the liver rather than the other way round?
Fourth, Could the liver inhibition actually reduce liver toxicity as less damage is done by and to the compound?I guess if the drug potency was lower, and you took grapefruit with it, then you'd need less high dose, and spend less money, and also cause your liver the swell less?

There are so many complexities here that without studies it is hard to be sure, however, based on pure logic, if this was a huge problem we would be well aware of it by now and i am very reluctant to read much into a cherry picked headline grabbing piece of BBC pseudo science
Agreed entirely. I think we're talking extreme cases here rather than just the norm. However, this phenomenon has been around for years.
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@FF


1) i think the article cherry picked a substance that was overdosed in this way, to my knowledge this is less common with more toxic substances there will always be a perfect storm though of a drug that for whatever reason needs to be strongly dosed to survive the 1st pass and then with grapefruit and possibly other factors like liver condition included, you get a toxic end result but id suggest its rare.

2)I think levels required for a drug to be blood toxic are generally higher, especially if we are talking things like analgesics. However you triple the dose of a diuretic or blood thinner and i can see complications arising very quickly

3)My suggestion was that the livers interaction with the drug is not black and white, all drugs have different properties and not all of them react the same way with the liver. Does the interaction of the drug in question actually result in increased potency if the liver is inhibited? I do not know.

4) this would be a good reason to test this further, if you can reduce active doses you minimize side effects which is very desirable.
 
I think we're both looking at it in exactly the same way. i.e. with scepticism. :D

Ultimately it also comes down the drug's therapeutic effect - it's different for each one, and there are no absolutes in this sort of thing.
 
reiyushin said:
Anyone used the bodymax cast iron plates? I'm after some more 20s :)
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I found them to be fine, if you lift them from the floor and let go they appear to fall back towards the floor completely consistent with all known theories of gravity. Whenever i have put them on a bar it does indeed seem that they make the bar heavier, as was my expectation. All in all i find these very hard to fault.
 
Ultra_Extreme said:
I found them to be fine, if you lift them from the floor and let go they appear to fall back towards the floor completely consistent with all known theories of gravity. Whenever i have put them on a bar it does indeed seem that they make the bar heavier, as was my expectation. All in all i find these very hard to fault.
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I bought them already but thanks for the review though I am concerned about them adding weight to the bar, won't that make the lift harder?
 
Well Stronglifts 5x5 is doing its job. Started to notice some muscle coming through on the Quads.

Rediscovered Gravy as well, as a way to liven up evening meals (Chicken + Peas/sweetcorn + Sweet Pot Mash)
Also discovered that Nandos hot sauce (was previously using on chicken), makes for a fantastic addition to my lunches! (rice + Mackerel + Chorizo + 'shroom[should really swap the 'shroom out for spinach])

kd
 
My right oblique is rather tender :( not sure if this is connected to my twinge during training this morning or no but I have hit my groin/hip area with a lacrosse ball and had the foam roller out to hit all around the area and my oblique. Any thoughts or just keep an eye on things?
 
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