* The 2012 Gym Rats Thread *

oli collett · 2 Feb 2012 at 20:08

SMed said:
There's nothing inherently magical about IF - you lose weight because you eat fewer calories. If you're finding that the IF regime doesn't fit within your lifestyle and training style, ditch it. But just make sure you're hitting your calories and macros.

The main thing being that don't expect miracles in strength work when dieting.

Also, in my experience, Strong Lifts is terrible for progression. I've seen so many times people plateau early. Starting Strength tends to get better results from what I've seen. There's not really any hard data out there on it, but 3x5 just seems to "work better" than 5x5 (across). Though, if you're dieting, the 5x5 may enable to you to get more work done, maybe at the cost of strength.

Yeah I thought it was more about the calories to be honest - is there a decent ratio for calorie count which will reduce muscle mass loss? I've read various claims for routines/diets which allow muscle growth during a calorific deficit but I can't see how it can work.

With regards to stronglifts - my deadlifts and squats are OK it's just the shoulder press/bench press, but then I'm "bottom heavy" in my build which might explain part of that.

MoNkeE · 2 Feb 2012 at 20:15

SMed, have you actually read through the leangains website? I only ask as it was only earlier today you hadn't heard of it, and only is evening you're saying it more or less doesn't do what it claims to do

SMed · 2 Feb 2012 at 20:29

oli collett said:
Yeah I thought it was more about the calories to be honest - is there a decent ratio for calorie count which will reduce muscle mass loss? I've read various claims for routines/diets which allow muscle growth during a calorific deficit but I can't see how it can work.

With regards to stronglifts - my deadlifts and squats are OK it's just the shoulder press/bench press, but then I'm "bottom heavy" in my build which might explain part of that.

Of course it's about the calories. All diets are about the calories when it comes to weightloss. They all serve to both reduce calories, and distract you so you don't think about reducing calories.

The best thing you can do to lose weight and keep as much muscle as you can is to reduce calories and keep protein high. 2g per lb of bodyweight is usually a decent goal; probably more than you need, but will still be effective if you come up short.

People often find lowering carbs is easier to keep hunger down, but generally training goes to **** and you can feel pretty flat at times. Higher carbs tends to usually enable better training, but if you're not getting 'the right' carbs, you may feel hungrier. But everyone's different, your mileage may vary.

Muscle growth under a caloric deficit is practically impossible. The only circumstance this might happen, would be extremely obese novices during the first couple of months of lifting. But this is marginal stuff. You're not going to gain an appreciable amount of muscle, if any at all, during a cut.

Yeah, I'm the same with my pressing. SS or SL don't tend to be very conducive to big presses, there's just not enough volume in these routines for pressing.

ElliottJames · 2 Feb 2012 at 20:30

oli collett said:
Yeah I thought it was more about the calories to be honest - is there a decent ratio for calorie count which will reduce muscle mass loss? I've read various claims for routines/diets which allow muscle growth during a calorific deficit but I can't see how it can work.

With regards to stronglifts - my deadlifts and squats are OK it's just the shoulder press/bench press, but then I'm "bottom heavy" in my build which might explain part of that.

to burn fat is a catabolic process which expends energy. Energy Out
to build muscle is an anabolic process which requires energy. Energy In

You won't build muscle unless your completely new and can bicep curl 1kg at most. You will maintain strength to prevent fat skinny.

SMed · 2 Feb 2012 at 20:36

MoNkeE said:
SMed, have you actually read through the leangains website? I only ask as it was only earlier today you hadn't heard of it, and only is evening you're saying it more or less doesn't do what it claims to do

I have heard of the site, and of the guy running it. He's PhD or something, correct? Or am I thinking of someone else? I don't doubt he knows quite a bit. I haven't looked into IF stuff in about a year or so, and what was available back then didn't impress me. The few studies that looked into IF did show that it worked to induce fat loss, but no better than a calorie matched control. As far as I'm aware, IF is very understudied dieting method. What I've seen out there so far doesn't impress me much.

I need to lose some chub myself, I'll look into leangains more after my exams in a few weeks.

oli collett · 2 Feb 2012 at 20:53

ElliottJames said:
to burn fat is a catabolic process which expends energy. Energy Out
to build muscle is an anabolic process which requires energy. Energy In

You won't build muscle unless your completely new and can bicep curl 1kg at most. You will maintain strength to prevent fat skinny.

Yep, that's exactly how i've always seen it, which is why i've always looked at such sites thinking it was BS.

I don't doubt the guys credentials who does leangains - he obviously has great results for himself and clients - but he does seem to oversell the science somewhat, especially with regards to some supplements that he recommends, which makes it somewhat difficult to take all of his advice without rather a large pinch of salt

Clipsey · 2 Feb 2012 at 21:06

I tried IF last summer, was ok as it fitted in perfectly with my schedule at the time. Didn't stick with it as it became annoying having to stop eating at 6 or 7pm - hard to be social that way.
Best results I've had from a cutting stand point, was trying the Keto diet.

Squid · 2 Feb 2012 at 21:49

All IF is good for is cutting weight IMO, cant see how you keep more muscle cutting like this over traditional/keto (ctk) diets over leangains.

It's still calories in/out and the macro balance is what swings the balance into more fat burning/muscle spearing.
tbh people find it works as its easy to follow/stick to.

I find keto easy when cutting as I'm never hungry (struggle to meet maintenance), never tired and can train with food in me and eat lush fatty food all day

. fact this week strength went up while lost about 1/2 lbs

if it works stick to it.

scottomus0 · 2 Feb 2012 at 21:52

ah this talk of cutting is killing me!!

sat here with a nice bowl of sludge!!

must better

Squid · 2 Feb 2012 at 22:00

scottomus0 said:
ah this talk of cutting is killing me!!

sat here with a nice bowl of sludge!! must better

summers coming, last year i swear April was the warmish and rest was rubbish ...

Biz.Kid09 · 2 Feb 2012 at 22:09

Delvis said:
The stomach fat will come down in time, you can't just take fat away from one place...Naturally

5x5 from what I know is a good starting point, it helps build up your initial strength, also due to you progressivly adding more weight each week it gives you something to look forward to.

With time you should start to see some physical changes, once you have done the 5x5 routine for a while, sit back and analyse how things have gone, then see what you want to do...Continue with strength gains primarily or chisel away and add some nice mass

I'm by no means 'experienced', but hopefully it makes some sense and some other guys in here will be able to chip in

EDIT: I'd recommend getting a scrap book as well, so you can note down what you do each session, how your body reacts to certain weights (any pains etc or anything) and anything else that happens...Always good to have something to refer to

Of course

Yeh that sounds good

Will steal one off the sister

I am reading through the 5x5 guide again now and getting to grips with what i am going to be doing. So will hopefully be able to join a gym these next few weeks. A bit of a stupid question but i dont need any extra equipment to do this do i?

Saytan · 2 Feb 2012 at 22:20

you may want some micro plates later on, but otherwise, no

Noroom · 2 Feb 2012 at 22:39

At the moment I'm currently doing a full-body workout three times a week with the idea to move on to a spilt routine in a couple of weeks when I'm not so busy. Im 5'11 and 76 kg, would the best course of action for me be a spilt routine with a muscle gaining centered diet (higher protein and cal intakes) and a cutting period down the line or some other course of action. Im looking for more size and strength mainly but I want to keep cardiovascular ability. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Deception · 3 Feb 2012 at 07:02

Here's a journal by BennyC (where did he vanish to?). He made a log of mixing IF with HST if you want to see how it worked:

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?t=18218442&highlight=startername_BennyC

MoNkeE · 3 Feb 2012 at 09:25

I don't know, the last time I saw him he was nursing a big thumb print on the top of his head

Freefaller · 3 Feb 2012 at 09:31

Man box squats are hard. Legs are caned today! :cool:

LiE · 3 Feb 2012 at 09:41

MoNkeE said:
I don't know, the last time I saw him he was nursing a big thumb print on the top of his head

I've seen him post in motors and GD.

tom_e · 3 Feb 2012 at 10:02

I think he's just taking some time away from hardcore training to sort his new house and stuff out.

SMed · 3 Feb 2012 at 10:03

Anyone ever run Smolov for squat?

MoNkeE · 3 Feb 2012 at 10:21

He still posts and I sometimes get abuse from him on FB - his training has lapsed with his new busy life style though, although I think he's getting back in to it

*** The 2012 Gym Rats Thread ***

* The 2012 Gym Rats Thread *