*** The 2014 Gym Rats Thread ***

[Barks]

Basically what sort of weight gain should I aim for to minimise overall fat gain - I can monitor this easily and adjust my macros accordingly?

I'm sure I read somewhere that 300-400kcal over average TDEE is all you actually need to bulk with minimal fat gain.

 

[Somnambulist]

Watch the Eric Helms series on YouTube - in part 2 he gives some basic guidelines for calorie/macro ranges when bulking, depending on gender and how long you've been training. Yes, I'm too lazy to link it, but it's a great 6 part series and you should watch all of it. Just search for Eric Helms Pyramid.

You can still do the IF part of LG (as for the non-professional athlete training more than once a day, meal frequency and timing isn't much of an issue) but beyond the beginner phase even Martin Berkhan had his clients on either the same or similar macros for training and rest days - it's much easier to just run a sensible surplus every day and gain a small amount of fat over a period of months, which can be dieted off in a couple of months, than try and be super clever about juggling macros heavily between training/rest days and end up spinning your wheels.

 

[Barks]

That's what I thought. I'll have a watch of that. I think the sensible surplus is probably the way forward, January has showed me just how easy it is to shred off the fat if you're committed and disciplined so fat gain certainly isn't the end of the world. Although giving up alcohol this month has had an extremely positive effect on my training and weight loss

I was doing 3 sessions/week (squats, deads, bench) for cutting but for bulking I might even slip back down to 2 sessions. I made huge gains last time with just 2 sessions. Psychologically I was always fired up and pumped which makes a big difference.

For those reading our posts to save you time...

 

[Somnambulist]

There's really no point having a massive surplus unless you want to get fat. The pros can generally get away with turning into fatties in the off-season as the drugs mean they can diet a lot harsher than average joe without losing lean mass (hence the incredible transformations in short periods of time).

Hitting every muscle group twice every 7-10 days is a generic recommendation and why a lot of the programs oriented around maximum hypertrophy (strength will come with them) are ones where you're either doing an upper/lower split repeated once a week (so A B rest A B rest rest) like Lyle's GBR or something like HST or ICF 5x5 where you're doing full body x 3 a week. Depends how far into your lifting career you are and what your recovery capacity is like (diet/sleep will play a big part).

 

[ethan]

I think you should really consider going to see a physio for some proper rehab.

Situps are absolutely terrible, and planks for max time are equally bad.

I already see/seen a "proper" physio if that is what they are called these days. After my specialist went on to suggest a disk fusion two weeks later the physio suggested I was capable of doing a light run?

I don't have any problems doing planks when keeping the spine in neutral. I wouldn't go for the five minutes though. I know situps are absolutely terrible. This is why I prefer planks with yoga/pilates It's taken me nearly 5 months to recover with better/full functionality treating myself after the fiasco with the physio.

 

[Nitefly]

Everyone in here probably needs to plank more.

 

[mrthingyx]

Everyone in here probably needs to plank more.

Yes and no.

Core strength is important to both regular humans and lifters. The key issue is what this core strength is doing: the entire point is to be able to hold the thorax, lumbar and pelvis in correct alignment and to provide a stable base (huh huh) for movement to occur (be it squatting, digging, carrying, whatever).

Holding a plank for 5 minutes or whatever isn't really of much benefit to anybody, because most people will not engage their core correctly (last 'test' I ran was a year or so ago and I managed 3 minutes before getting bored, and spent most of that time hanging off my abdominals because I could): i.e. not across the femur->pelvis->spine->shoulders. And even then, they won't get the requisite spinal alignment (neutral) and pelvic positioning correct (generally posterior pelvic tilt for most people), making the exercise functionally pointless.

And unless all of that musculature is activated with the respective bones/joints in the right place, the carry-over to actual lifting/existing is negligible. As such, you will find a lot of people who can 'plank' for five minutes may well crumple as soon as they actually try to lift anything. When planking to support daily activity/ lifting, it is important to keep ALL the muscles working.

As such, most people - even experienced lifters - will not be able to hold a proper plank for over 45 seconds because the muscle activation of actual core muscles is so difficult to maintain in a braced position (as it is with any muscle).

So this is why you have a couple of response types, and why I asked you what you're trying to achieve. If you want a stronger and more stable core, there are better exercises you can do. If you just want to plank for 5 minutes or whatever, then great and carry on.

 

[tom_e]

Everyone in here probably needs to plank more.

Oh I "plank" more than enough thank you

 

[elmarko]

Anybody here had much experiencing lifting on a vegetarian diet & it's viability? - gf is considered going back to vegetarianism & usually we just eat the same things (for my own personal laziness reasons) & wondered how easy/difficult it is while lifting.

Currently, I eat a fair amount of meat (chicken, steak, lamb & hit my protein macros pretty well) - but if I took out the meat I'm not sure how easy/desirable it would be to replace those with eggs/protein shakes & cottage cheese.

 

[FrenchTart]

Anybody here had much experiencing lifting on a vegetarian diet & it's viability? - gf is considered going back to vegetarianism & usually we just eat the same things (for my own personal laziness reasons) & wondered how easy/difficult it is while lifting.

Currently, I eat a fair amount of meat (chicken, steak, lamb & hit my protein macros pretty well) - but if I took out the meat I'm not sure how easy/desirable it would be to replace those with eggs/protein shakes & cottage cheese.

There's a great thread by Nate Silvers in the Training Logs thread which has all the vegan lifting information you could possibly want...

edit: Have we hit a time warp? I've got an extreme case of deja-vu.

 

[elmarko]

There's a great thread by Nate Silvers in the Training Logs thread which has all the vegan lifting information you could possibly want...

edit: Have we hit a time warp? I've got an extreme case of deja-vu.

Cheers for the pointer, I'll have a look (don't spend much time in the training logs section).

Not sure about the time warp, unless the g/f did the same a couple of years back & I forgot about it! (which is always a possibility! ).

 

[FrenchTart]

Cheers for the pointer, I'll have a look (don't spend much time in the training logs section).

Not sure about the time warp, unless the g/f did the same a couple of years back & I forgot about it! (which is always a possibility! ).

Maybe someone else asked a very similar question.

Btw, don't actually check out that log. It was a bad joke The guy is kind of mental and his log is just filled with incorrect information about nutrition.

It's perfectly possible to lift and make gains on a vegan diet but you really need to know your stuff as you can't get away with being lazy about your macros as much as you can when you're eating meat.

 

[elmarko]

Maybe someone else asked a very similar question.

Btw, don't actually check out that log. It was a bad joke The guy is kind of mental and his log is just filled with incorrect information about nutrition.

It's perfectly possible to lift and make gains on a vegan diet but you really need to know your stuff as you can't get away with being lazy about your macros as much as you can when you're eating meat.

Ay, had a quick look & abandoned the thread quickly.

Thankfully the g/f isn't considering going back vegan (otherwise I'd be on my own 'foodwise'), but vegetarianism I can deal with mostly (but never lifted while vegetarian & unsure about combining the two).

 

[FrenchTart]

Ay, had a quick look & abandoned the thread quickly.

Thankfully the g/f isn't considering going back vegan (otherwise I'd be on my own 'foodwise'), but vegetarianism I can deal with mostly (but never lifted while vegetarian & unsure about combining the two).

Vegetarian will be somewhat easier as you can consume dairy products, yeah. I'm sure someone else will post with better advice but if I was going for a vegetarian diet I'd basically research all the best sources of protein that I can reasonably consume. Just try to avoid the "carbs-only route" and really make sure you're aware of your kcal intake (i.e. that it may well be harder to get enough kcal with a vegetarian diet - you will have to plan around that).

 

[mrthingyx]

Ay, had a quick look & abandoned the thread quickly.

Thankfully the g/f isn't considering going back vegan (otherwise I'd be on my own 'foodwise'), but vegetarianism I can deal with mostly (but never lifted while vegetarian & unsure about combining the two).

It is no different to training/lifting on a proper diet: the only difference being taste. I will leave you to think about which one is better/worse.

Practically, there are certain things you have to bear in mind...

- creatine intake. Whilst I know this is an exceptionally powerful steroid that is present in all meat (mostly red meat) it is completely absent from a vegetarian diet unless supplemented. Being a very powerful steroid, it will help you get swole more effectively, but deficiencies (as caused by non-meat eating) cause deficits in working memory. So supplement it and profit from brain gains, too.

- prevalence of starchy foods. Whilst slightly easier for vegetarians than vegans (whoopee for dairy! ) beans, pulses and other stuff like that are quite high in starchy carbs which may or may not be desired. Make sure you balance your carb vs. fat vs. protein intakes accordingly. Not a problem is you do.

- grow some balls. Seriously? You let your missus dictate your diet? GTFO and MTFU.

 

[elmarko]

Cheers, already had a look & it seems milk, cheese, and yogurt, beans, eggs, protein powder - along with the high protein vegetables (well, higher..) seem to be a reasonable split.

It is no different to training/lifting on a proper diet: the only difference being taste. I will leave you to think about which one is better/worse.

Practically, there are certain things you have to bear in mind...

- creatine intake. Whilst I know this is an exceptionally powerful steroid that is present in all meat (mostly red meat) it is completely absent from a vegetarian diet unless supplemented. Being a very powerful steroid, it will help you get swole more effectively, but deficiencies (as caused by non-meat eating) cause deficits in working memory. So supplement it and profit from brain gains, too.

- prevalence of starchy foods. Whilst slightly easier for vegetarians than vegans (whoopee for dairy! ) beans, pulses and other stuff like that are quite high in starchy carbs which may or may not be desired. Make sure you balance your carb vs. fat vs. protein intakes accordingly. Not a problem is you do.

- grow some balls. Seriously? You let your missus dictate your diet? GTFO and MTFU.

Haha - correct on almost all accounts .

The last one is laziness, I usually cook (she burns water) - but prefer not to cook twice if I can avoid it! - assuming it won't ruin my gains/lifting I'm happy to switch to vegetarianism for 'convenience'.

Already on the creatine so just need to keep that one up - keeping whey should make it easier also obviously!.

Thanks for the tips guys, while much of this kind of information is available on-line it's almost impossible to know which sites are full of **** & which have genuine information for this kind of thing.

 

[FrenchTart]

If you ever want a completely 100% fool-proof way of separating **** from fiction just drop Nate Silvers a trust message and ask him. Whatever he says is guaranteed to be a load of cack so you know to do the opposite.

 

[Freefaller]

Why not cook a vegetarian meal, but then just cook a chicken thigh or a steak or some meat separately to add into your diet?

 

[elmarko]

Why not cook a vegetarian meal, but then just cook a chicken thigh or a steak or some meat separately to add into your diet?

It's a possibility I may do actually, but I'd be spending a fair amount of time making the vegetarian dish as appealing as possible (herbs, spices, chillies etc) - I can't stand plain meat & tend to garnish a fair bit making it more time consuming.

Between work, lifting, spending time with the g/f, seeing friends, drawing, music & the odd bit of charity work it's damn hard to find the time to spend that long cooking.

It also makes it easier supporting her with the new diet if I'm doing the same (but the key aspect was making sure I don't undo the effort I've put into eating properly/lifting).

 

[Freefaller]

Yes you do seem to be doing an awful lot! I could quite happily have a roasted/fried chicken thigh with a little seasoning without worrying too much about it, as I could chop it up in the dish - you could just roast it in the oven and effectively "forget about it" as you're cooking the veggie meal?

However, you need to do what you feel is right.

Just ensure you get all your nutrients At least you can eat dairy and eggs!