** The AMD Navi Thread **

[Chrisc]

So do you don't think Nvidia are over charging for the 2070 then, considering previous generations were a lot cheaper?

I do to be perfectly honest, i also think the AMD card is overpriced. As AMD are always playing catch up, i do see Nvidia as the company who set the Pricing structure. If the 2070 was currently £300, i would fully expect AMD to be selling the X5700xt at the same price. I guess with AMD joining at that pricing level, if Nvidia did lower prices of the equivalent cards, AMD could match them prices without taking as much of a hit, but who am i to speculate?

 

[Illuminist]

If its a little cheaper and a little faster , surely you win the sales?
No ones asking for charity just competition, i.e undercutting prices is the usual tactic, but this isn't happening here with gpu's
Its like AMD are working for nvidia

 

[LePhuronn]

The 5800 Ultra was out before that. It was one with a giant cooler at the time to compete with the 9700/9800 cards from ATi. I don't think there was an ultra before that.

Hang on, was the question "ultra settings" in games or "Ultra" as a product name?

If the former then Doom 3's "ultra" settings was the first I saw. If the latter then I owned a 5700 Ultra before I upgraded.

Monday hurts my brain.

Edit:

Ultra was always meant to be 'bleeding edge - probably for a future GPU generation' setting, not a setting that you must use to enjoy the game!
...
Was it Crysis that started introducing 'Ultra'?

The former then.

 

[Chrisc]

If its a little cheaper and a little faster , surely you win the sales?
No ones asking for charity just competition, i.e undercutting prices is the usual tactic, but this isn't happening here with gpu's
Its like AMD are working for nvidia

AMD have tried with the cheaper/faster cards. I still think a very high percentage of Hardware buyers choose Nvidia.

 

[Razor Time]

I do to be perfectly honest, i also think the AMD card is overpriced. As AMD are always playing catch up, i do see Nvidia as the company who set the Pricing structure. If the 2070 was currently £300, i would fully expect AMD to be selling the X5700xt at the same price. I guess with AMD joining at that pricing level, if Nvidia did lower prices of the equivalent cards, AMD could match them prices without taking as much of a hit, but who am i to speculate?

IMO just because one company sets a high price it doesn't mean the other company should follow suit.

I think most enthusiasts are disappointed that AMD have gone this route as they were hoping some normality would be brought back into the market with the release of Navi and that they could get gpu offering performance back at the price level it should be.

 

[Sargatanas2511]

Wouldn't be an issue normally, but when you die is a lot smaller on smaller process and your power/TDP is still higher even after arch change.

Navi/RNDA seems o be a step in the direction but AMD gpu's from technical stand point look to need a lot of work still.

It doesn't matter to us what process it's on does it. What matters more is the end TDP and this card is definitely a positive step. I couldn't care less if it was 28nm again if it has the performance they say it does and draws 180W then what does it matter what node it's on? Also remember each company determines "TDP" differently so we will need to wait and see reviews for actual comparable power draw.

 

[Sargatanas2511]

Hang on, was the question "ultra settings" in games or "Ultra" as a product name?

If the former then Doom 3's "ultra" settings was the first I saw. If the latter then I owned a 5700 Ultra before I upgraded.

Monday hurts my brain.

My mistake, I read it as the ultra line of graphics cards, sorry mate!

 

[TNA]

IMO just because one company sets a high price it doesn't mean the other company should follow suit.

I think most enthusiasts are disappointed that AMD have gone this route as they were hoping some normality would be brought back into the market with the release of Navi and that they could get gpu offering performance back at the price level it should be.

Yep. AMD are becoming the new Intel/Nvidia. As a business I do not blame them as they need the money. But also it results in me not having any sympathy for them. Was thinking of going for an all AMD system, but now I will only get zen 2 as at least that genuinely does offer better price for performance compared to Intel, though I was disappointed in the pricing of that also if I am being honest.

 

[Brazo]

AMD are far from unknown, having a feature you can't really use and you would still rather have it than not? Why?

Also AMD has stated the TDP already and considering the added power use of GDDR6 over HBM the power usage drop is actually pretty enormous. TDP is very marginally higher than the 2070, it'll be interesting how that translates in real world.

I don’t disagree with you and whilst AMD are known to you and I they aren’t the household name that Nvidia is amongst gamers. Whether or not RTX is useful (we both know the answer) average joe just sees the marketing. At best this will be seen as a parity product at worst marketing will easily influence your average joe. As for TDP it might be AMD’s best but it’s not better than Nvidia old products. Again I’m really not trying to be difficult just trying to show why such a product will be difficult to sell at these prices.

 

[Sargatanas2511]

I don’t disagree with you and whilst AMD are known to you and I they aren’t the household name that Nvidia is amongst gamers. Whether or not RTX is useful (we both know the answer) average joe just sees the marketing. At best this will be seen as a parity product at worst marketing will easily influence your average joe. As for TDP it might be AMD’s best but it’s not better than Nvidia old products. Again I’m really not trying to be difficult just trying to show why such a product will be difficult to sell at these prices.

I know you're not trying to be difficult and we all have our own opinions, I think most gamers know who AMD are though. They make the big bits of hardware in both main consoles and Ryzen is helping their brand name massively. RTX is pretty pointless below a 2080Ti right now also.

The TDP going by AMD's own information (all we have to go on concrete just now) shows that it's ~10% faster at 20% higher TDP (220W for the 5700XT) which is really not far off the 2070 at all. Whether this actually pans out will be shown in reviews though.

 

[LePhuronn]

My mistake, I read it as the ultra line of graphics cards, sorry mate!

It's all good, I have serious brain fog from some impending lurgy on top of Mondayitis so I had to go back and re-read because I was questioning myself!

 

[JediFragger]

AMD are becoming the new Intel/Nvidia.

Don't be fooled, AMD would take their place in a *heartbeat* along with some of their less desirable practices. $$ is King.

 

[Sargatanas2511]

Don't be fooled, AMD would take their place in a *heartbeat* along with some of their less desirable practices. $$ is King.

They have some upsides like supporting more open standards but yes I agree overall, pretty much any company would do the same.

 

[CAT-THE-FIFTH]

Bottom line is that Nvidia and the very first Titan card, started this whole high pricing fiasco. They pushed out a £1k gpu to see if anyone would bite and the fan boys came flocking to show off their e-peen by having "the best/most expensive" card available. Nvidia seen that they were selling at this price and lo and behold, we're here today with stupid pricing. If nobody had bought the original titan at that price, then today we wouldn't have high prices.

If those with more money than sense would turn 1 dial on the visuals, down 1 notch to get a solid 60fps instead of hitting the "ultra" settings button, then we wouldn't be here again. This "must have max visuals settings enabled to game on" mentality need to stop. The difference from Ultra and High settings is barely noticeable anyway. Yet these GPU manufacturers are playing on the need for fan boys to swing their epeen, to sell at high prices.

People did argue what the effect Titan class cards would have on the midrange and people were people called jealous,etc. Apparently the Titan was a "new type of GPU" even if people argued it was that generations GTX580,etc with a new name. Its all gone swimmingly well don't you think??

 

[Zernath]

People did argue what the effect Titan class cards would have on the midrange and people were people called jealous,etc. Apparently the Titan was a "new type of GPU" even if people argued it was that generations GTX580,etc with a new name. Its all gone swimmingly well don't you think??

People are still defending this kind of money grubbing, not realising that eventually even whales will be priced out of the market.

 

[D.P.]

I never stated anybody did said that. However, you do get the feeling when reading comments that people assume/expect AMD to be the much cheaper alternative. Thats a fairly accurate observation i think.

These are so called AMD fans, blind to the obvious nature of bussiness and economy, let alone AMD's own product history.

AMD released the Fury at the same RRP bit higher street prices than the 980ti despite being slower.
AMD released the 480 at the same price as the 1060 despite being slower.
AMD released Vega 64 as same price as the 1080 but slower.


Wasn't hard for me to project that AMD would release Navi and not offer any price-performance advantage, despite being nearly a year late and offering less features.



IMO, AMD absolutely should be selling GPUs at the market value, which is what nvidia is exploring. What AMD should also do is release competitive products at the same time frame. If you are a year late then good luck seeing any reasonable sales.

 

[D.P.]

It doesn't matter to us what process it's on does it. What matters more is the end TDP and this card is definitely a positive step. I couldn't care less if it was 28nm again if it has the performance they say it does and draws 180W then what does it matter what node it's on? Also remember each company determines "TDP" differently so we will need to wait and see reviews for actual comparable power draw.

You may not care if you are looking to buy Navi vs Turing today. You should absolutely care if you wonder what GPUs will be like next time you upgrade and what prospects each company have to improve performance. As it stands, Nvidia is about 2 generations ahead of AMD, while AMD's use of a smaller more expensive node has given them effectively 1 generation step up which will vanish in a blionk of the eye when Nvidia move to 7nmm EUV next year. And this came at a huge cost for AMD since they couldn't release their 7nm GPU last year to compete with Nvidia, and they still can't release a large die GPU to compete with 2080 and up (vega 7 is EOL).

 

[DDH]

These are so called AMD fans, blind to the obvious nature of bussiness and economy, let alone AMD's own product history.

AMD released the Fury at the same RRP bit higher street prices than the 980ti despite being slower.
AMD released the 480 at the same price as the 1060 despite being slower.
AMD released Vega 64 as same price as the 1080 but slower.


Wasn't hard for me to project that AMD would release Navi and not offer any price-performance advantage, despite being nearly a year late and offering less features.



IMO, AMD absolutely should be selling GPUs at the market value, which is what nvidia is exploring. What AMD should also do is release competitive products at the same time frame. If you are a year late then good luck seeing any reasonable sales.

Was the 2080 a year late? It offered the same performance as the 1080ti for the same price. Was the 2070 a year late? It offered the same performance as the 1080 for the same price

 

[KillBoY_UK]

Was the 2080 a year late? It offered the same performance as the 1080ti for the same price. Was the 2070 a year late? It offered the same performance as the 1080 for the same price

I giggled at the 980ti being slower than the Fury, Especially now.

 

[Sargatanas2511]

You may not care if you are looking to buy Navi vs Turing today. You should absolutely care if you wonder what GPUs will be like next time you upgrade and what prospects each company have to improve performance. As it stands, Nvidia is about 2 generations ahead of AMD, while AMD's use of a smaller more expensive node has given them effectively 1 generation step up which will vanish in a blionk of the eye when Nvidia move to 7nmm EUV next year. And this came at a huge cost for AMD since they couldn't release their 7nm GPU last year to compete with Nvidia, and they still can't release a large die GPU to compete with 2080 and up (vega 7 is EOL).

But they're not effectively anything in terms of this current generation. Nvidia made a choice to use the 12nm node and that suits them fine. Right now why does it matter what process each is on?

It's not like saying AMD are less efficient and using 7nm suddenly makes the physical card use more power or be less efficient than it is.