** The AMD Navi Thread **

[Troezar]

Let’s hope not, don’t want to see add on cards again

If it keeps the price of GPUs down and is platform agnostic I'd be for it. Upgrade GPU keep the same RT card.

 

[MyBrainz]

What's sketchy?

Categorically states the 5700 will be overclockable, AIB partners are not restricted from offering overclockable versions with their own tools and designs and Wattman is available from the outset. Sounds like he had to correct himself from giving too much information and therefore restrict to what AMD are doing, rather than making blanket statements.

Maybe i chose the wrong word, but he didnt address the vBIOS question that was asked, like flashing the 5700XT vBIOS to the 5700 (non XT).

What I thought was interesting was then taking the discussion about crossfire "offline". What's that all about? More plans to make crossfire relevant again?

Was strange he said that, did he have a chat with him about GPU chiplets afterwards

Really enjoyed that vid, a great watch for us tech nerds!! Thanks

Yea Navi is getting more interesting the closer we get to release date with the info trickling out slowly.

Looking forward to Navi benches aswell as Zen 2 now

 

[LePhuronn]

Maybe i chose the wrong word, but he didnt address the vBIOS question that was asked, like flashing the 5700XT vBIOS to the 5700 (non XT).

An AMD rep is not going to comment on such an unsanctioned act.

 

[StriderX]

Robert says Radeon Anti Lag isn't messing with Pre-rendered frames I.e Back Buffers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY8qvK5XRgA&t=4604s

Scott isn't wrong here tbh I agree with him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OY8qvK5XRgA&t=2360s

Since it's only recommended barely for competitive play, it must mess up some processing or draw calls?

 

[Besty]

Piecing together the information, I have run a best-case scenario assuming a decent boost clock under air and Battlefield 5. We all know this is the best case benchmark for AMD and also, my numbers tally with what AMD have published on their slide.

For reference the AMD slide shows the 5700XT 12% quicker than a 2070 EOL in this game and resolution. The problem is, I can't simulate the actual boost clocks under air.

Edit: actually AMD helped in this regard with their slide, so I have assumed a 12% loss in boost clocks under air.

The numbers were calculated assuming a 12% bump for any card (Nvidia or AMD) that uses GDDR6. In theory this performance increase is vendor and card agnostic (excluding the HBM cards). Ergo, this would apply if the 1080ti used it, 1080 used it and if the AMD 590 used it.

Next I applied the 25% clock-for-clock performance increase from Polaris to Navi. This increase is stated in the Anandtech technology briefing. As this site has very close ties with AMD, I am taking this number as fact. In order then to work out how fast a Navi chip goes you can then simply divide the FPS numbers from a benchmark by the 590 boost clock and then add the 25% IPC increase, then multiply by the Navi boost clock.

The GTX1080 FE has been selected by me as the target card. People might whinge and say the 2070 is the target but I don't really think that is the case for this product cycle.








Witcher 3 added.

Early conclusion is that the 2070S will pip the 5700XT due to its higher average fps scores where as the 5700XT will have less spikes, it is very close though and the 5900XT might win some benches especially in the 99th Percentile.

Value Calculation.



If the numbers stack then it demonstrates two things a) Nvidias value proposition has been flat over the last two generations of card b) AMD's value prop has been increasing generation to generation - with the notable exception of the Vega64 Launch

Power Table.

 

[Grim5]

Not bad, that’s a 50% performance increase from the rx590 to the rx690

Now if only it didn’t also come with a 80% price increase

 

[Donnie Fisher]

Let’s hope not, don’t want to see add on cards again

Why not? A lot of enthusiast builds sit with slots on the board unused. Makes sense to me.

 

[Freddie1980]

Not bad, that’s a 50% performance increase from the rx590 to the rx690

Now if only it didn’t also come with a 80% price increase

I can't see those prices holding up for long though (unless there's another mining boom). It's much easier to start high and discount to find the sweet spot for your product then pricing it to low and then having to justify price increases (as was the case when AMD launched the 5870).

Obviously we need to see proper benchmarks but assuming this reasonably accurate what improvements if any does Navi actually bring to the table in terms of power efficiency beyond what they already get from the new process node?

RX 590 - 225 TDP vs 5700 XT 225 TDP: your getting 52% more performance for the same power but from what I've read on TSMC's 7nm process that's what your get anyway vs it's older 14nm process.​

 

[Besty]

Not bad, that’s a 50% performance increase from the rx590 to the rx690

Now if only it didn’t also come with a 80% price increase

Added a value calculation table based on my numbers.

 

[thenewoc]

I can't see those prices holding up for long though (unless there's another mining boom). It's much easier to start high and discount to find the sweet spot for your product then pricing it to low and then having to justify price increases (as was the case when AMD launched the 5870).

Obviously we need to see proper benchmarks but assuming this reasonably accurate what improvements if any does Navi actually bring to the table in terms of power efficiency beyond what they already get from the new process node?

RX 590 - 225 TDP vs 5700 XT 225 TDP: your getting 52% more performance for the same power but from what I've read on TSMC's 7nm process that's what your get anyway vs it's older 14nm process.​

I suppose 5700XT similar to Vega 64 but we need to remember 5700XT isn't the top product in the Navi stack so it may bode well for the 5800 & 5900 etc if and when we see those.

 

[Besty]

Obviously we need to see proper benchmarks but assuming this reasonably accurate what improvements if any does Navi actually bring to the table in terms of power efficiency beyond what they already get from the new process node?

RX 590 - 225 TDP vs 5700 XT 225 TDP: your getting 52% more performance for the same power but from what I've read on TSMC's 7nm process that's what your get anyway vs it's older 14nm process.​

Have whacked in a power table at the end. The answer is going to vary wildly from game to game.

The best answer is that the 5700 is going to be not much worse, pound-for-pound than a 1080FE. Personally I found the 1080FE to be a wonderfully cool and quiet card at stock.

Has Navi changed the game in this regard? No, not really. The 5700 (non-XT) is basically a 1080 FE which has a few more features, is almost half the launch price and draws a little more power because of the GDDR6.

 

[JediFragger]

I suppose 5700XT similar to Vega 64 but we need to remember 5700XT isn't the top product in the Navi stack so it may bode well for the 5800 & 5900 etc if and when we see those.

At 225w for the 5700XT though I'm not sure how much headroom they have for extra CU's. Maybe upto 64 (from 40) with a lower clock ?

 

[thenewoc]

I would think its a bit tick tock like with presumably some more refinement in the pipeline for 5800 and beyond...

 

[LePhuronn]

I suppose 5700XT similar to Vega 64 but we need to remember 5700XT isn't the top product in the Navi stack so it may bode well for the 5800 & 5900 etc if and when we see those.

Anything new will be the next version of RDNA. May possibly get lower-specced cards cut down from this Navi 10, but anything higher-specced will be RDNA 2.

 

[bru]

Spoiler: Snip

Piecing together the information, I have run a best-case scenario assuming a decent boost clock under air and Battlefield 5. We all know this is the best case benchmark for AMD and also, my numbers tally with what AMD have published on their slide.

For reference the AMD slide shows the 5700XT 12% quicker than a 2070 EOL in this game and resolution. The problem is, I can't simulate the actual boost clocks under air.

Edit: actually AMD helped in this regard with their slide, so I have assumed a 12% loss in boost clocks under air.

The numbers were calculated assuming a 12% bump for any card (Nvidia or AMD) that uses GDDR6. In theory this performance increase is vendor and card agnostic (excluding the HBM cards). Ergo, this would apply if the 1080ti used it, 1080 used it and if the AMD 590 used it.

Next I applied the 25% clock-for-clock performance increase from Polaris to Navi. This increase is stated in the Anandtech technology briefing. As this site has very close ties with AMD, I am taking this number as fact. In order then to work out how fast a Navi chip goes you can then simply divide the FPS numbers from a benchmark by the 590 boost clock and then add the 25% IPC increase, then multiply by the Navi boost clock.

The GTX1080 FE has been selected by me as the target card. People might whinge and say the 2070 is the target but I don't really think that is the case for this product cycle.








Witcher 3 added.

Early conclusion is that the 2070S will pip the 5700XT due to its higher average fps scores where as the 5700XT will have less spikes, it is very close though and the 5900XT might win some benches especially in the 99th Percentile.

Value Calculation.



If the numbers stack then it demonstrates two things a) Nvidias value proposition has been flat over the last two generations of card b) AMD's value prop has been increasing generation to generation - with the notable exception of the Vega64 Launch

Power Table.

As fun as estimating these things are, we really have no idea just how things will turn out until July 7th when the reviews will show what is what.
The leaks so far seem to show that RDNA will perform differently to the previous GCN cards depending on the task, just how differently, good or bad, we will find out on the 7th.

 

[RavenXXX2]

navi doa with 2070-s at £475.

 

[RavenXXX2]

https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/2516?vs=2514

It's basically 2080 performance for under £500. AMD got greedy and now they are going to have to drop prices asap and look stupid

 

[Martini1991]

That 2060 super has Navi pinned I think.
It'll be better than 5700 and be close to 5700XT

 

[LePhuronn]

That depends on what the price of the 5700XT is when it lands. If Gibbo is selling Ryzen 3000 at RRP then perhaps he'll sell Navi at RRP, which would put the XT at £427.62, so let's say £429.99. That's £30 cheaper than the cheapest RTX 2070 (which will have those lower-binned GPUs) and the XT trade blows with the RTX 2070 Founders; all of those higher-binned GPUs still sell around £480+ So that's at least £50 cheaper than the actual card the XT is targeted at.

Navi price drops can wait until the original RTX line go EOL, which I doubt will be any time soon. If anything the Radeon 7 needs to come down in price now because it's £100 more expensive than the RTX 2070 Super which matches it.

 

[Martini1991]

That depends on what the price of the 5700XT is when it lands. If Gibbo is selling Ryzen 3000 at RRP then perhaps he'll sell Navi at RRP, which would put the XT at £427.62, so let's say £429.99. That's £30 cheaper than the cheapest RTX 2070 (which will have those lower-binned GPUs) and the XT trade blows with the RTX 2070 Founders; all of those higher-binned GPUs still sell around £480+ So that's at least £50 cheaper than the actual card the XT is targeted at.

Navi price drops can wait until the original RTX line go EOL, which I doubt will be any time soon. If anything the Radeon 7 needs to come down in price now because it's £100 more expensive than the RTX 2070 Super which matches it.

I didn't mention the 2070 super.
The 2070 super will be 475 and beating the 5700XT.

Navi went from offering better price/performance to worse.