The American Police

Burnsy2023 · 2 Jan 2021 at 12:53

deuse said:
So 5-7000 guns are still on the streets.

Not necessarily. Firearms offences is a surprisingly large bucket of crimes, you can't make that assertion from the data provided.

deuse · 2 Jan 2021 at 13:29

Burnsy2023 said:
Not necessarily. Firearms offences is a surprisingly large bucket of crimes, you can't make that assertion from the data provided.

There was 9,700 crimes involving firearms taking place in the UK in 2020.
The cops seized about 500. Where are the rest?

StriderX · 2 Jan 2021 at 13:36

Section 5(1)(a) any firearm which is so designed or adapted so that two or more missiles can be successively discharged without repeated pressure on the trigger, e.g. machine guns, burst fire weapons;

Section 5(1)(ab) any self-loading or pump-action rifled gun other than one which is chambered for .22 rim-fire, e.g. short barrelled rifles;

Section 5(1)(aba) any firearm which either has a barrel less than 30cm in length or is less than 60cm in length overall, other than an air weapon, a muzzle-loading gun or a firearm designed as signalling apparatus, e.g. handguns, revolvers;

Section 5(1)(ac) any self-loading or pump-action smooth-bore gun which is not an air weapon or chambered for .22 rim-fire cartridges and either has a barrel less than 24" in length or is less than 40" in length overall, e.g. self-loading shotguns;

Section 5(1)(ad) any smooth-bore revolver gun other than one which is chambered for 9mm rim-fire cartridges or a muzzle-loading gun, e.g. Dragon;

Section 5(1)(ae) any rocket launcher, or any mortar, for projecting a stabilised missile, other than a launcher or mortar designed for line-throwing or pyrotechnic purposes or as signalling apparatus;

Section 5(1)(af) any air rifle, air gun or air pistol which uses, or is designed or adapted for use with, a self-contained gas cartridge system, e.g. Brococks;

Section 5(1)(c) any cartridge with a bullet designed to explode on or immediately before impact, any ammunition containing or designed or adapted to contain any such noxious thing as mentioned in section 5(1)(b), and, if capable of being used with a firearm of any description, any grenade, bomb (or other like missile), or rocket or shell designed to explode as aforesaid, e.g. ammunition containing explosive in the bullets or missiles;

Section 5(1A)(a) any firearm which is disguised as another object, e.g. pen guns, key fob guns and phone guns.

Burnsy2023 · 2 Jan 2021 at 14:02

deuse said:
There was 9,700 crimes involving firearms taking place in the UK in 2020.
The cops seized about 500. Where are the rest?

Firearms offences include things like possession of ammunition, or things like prohibited weapons such as CS spray.

cheesyboy · 2 Jan 2021 at 14:03

deuse said:
You've brought in the Blind\deaf\non-verbal, or cognitively impaired, or non-English speaking.

Yes I have, because I think it's relevant when we're excusing police shooting people for not complying to point out that there are some people who may simply not be able to comply.

Would it be OK for a police officer to shoot someone for not complying, when they were unable to comply? If not, perhaps we should question whether not-complying should be enough to shoot someone.

deuse · 2 Jan 2021 at 14:18

cheesyboy said:
Yes I have, because I think it's relevant when we're excusing police shooting people for not complying to point out that there are some people who may simply not be able to comply.

Would it be OK for a police officer to shoot someone for not complying, when they were unable to comply? If not, perhaps we should question whether not-complying should be enough to shoot someone.

Nothing t5o do with this case what so ever.
Stick to facts of the case.

You are trying to bring silly things in to this that don't exist.

You have to comply with the police.
It's the law(for the second time)

TheVoice · 2 Jan 2021 at 14:19

deuse said:
There was 9,700 crimes involving firearms taking place in the UK in 2020.
The cops seized about 500. Where are the rest?

What "rest"? You seem to be attributing every firearms offence to one firearm each, that's not how it works. The actual data and research is out there and available if you care to look and would stop you making silly assertions like the police seizing 20,000 firearms in a single year.

Nasher · 2 Jan 2021 at 14:19

Firearms offences in the UK include loads of things, some pretty minor. It isn't all London slum shootouts and bank robberies.

Even owning an airsoft gun which is over 1 joule is a "firearm" offence. My old neighbour blasting a mole with his shotgun in the back garden is another.

deuse · 2 Jan 2021 at 14:21

Burnsy2023 said:
Firearms offences include things like possession of ammunition, or things like prohibited weapons such as CS spray.

So the UK police put CS spray under gun crimes?
I think not.

"Gun crime has increased by 4% in one year with more than 9,700 crimes involving firearms taking place in the UK."

From the link a few pages abck.

Nasher · 2 Jan 2021 at 14:22

Yes it does include gas like CS spray. Stun guns too. Also similar home made things.

deuse · 2 Jan 2021 at 14:24

TheVoice said:
What "rest"? You seem to be attributing every firearms offence to one firearm each, that's not how it works. The actual data and research is out there and available if you care to look and would stop you making silly assertions like the police seizing 20,000 firearms in a single year.

For every gun crime there must be a gun.
Since the cops only got 450 guns out of circulation, they need to find the rest.

deuse · 2 Jan 2021 at 14:25

Nasher said:
Yes it does include gas like CS spray. Stun guns too. Also similar home made things.

Really

Only the UK would call CS spray a GUN

"Believe it or not, in the UK pepper spray / CS Gas is considered a firearm and carries the same legal penalties as carrying a gun does!"

https://www.robertreeveslaw.com/blo...nership, carry and use,as carrying a gun does!

Nasher · 2 Jan 2021 at 14:27

deuse said:
Really

Only the UK would call CS spray a GUN

Because there was no point in making a seperate law for it.

TheVoice · 2 Jan 2021 at 14:28

deuse said:
So the UK police put CS spray under gun crimes?
I think not.

https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/firearms#a14

Section 5 (1)(b)

deuse said:
For every gun crime there must be a gun.

Absolutely not.

deuse · 2 Jan 2021 at 14:28

Nasher said:
Because there was no point in making a seperate law for it.

Of coarse there is.
They are 2 completely different things.
Only in the UK

deuse · 2 Jan 2021 at 14:31

TheVoice said:
https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/firearms#a14

Section 5 (1)(b)

Absolutely not.

You're right!
Now that I know the police call cs spray a gun

No wonder this place is going down the pan,,,FAST

It's a wonder they don't put hairspray on the list

TheVoice · 2 Jan 2021 at 14:35

deuse said:
Only the UK would call CS spray a GUN

We don't call it a "gun", but they're incorporated into the Firearms Act along with various other items e.g. stun guns/Tasers.

StriderX · 2 Jan 2021 at 14:37

I'll ask a simple question that only needs a simple answer,

Has widespread gun ownership made the US a better country?

deuse · 2 Jan 2021 at 14:40

TheVoice said:
We don't call it a "gun", but they're incorporated into the Firearms Act along with various other items e.g. stun guns/Tasers.

That's the worst firearms act in the world...Or the laziest.

TheVoice · 2 Jan 2021 at 14:40

deuse said:
You're right!
Now that I know the police call cs spray a gun
No wonder this place is going down the pan,,,FAST

It's a wonder they don't put hairspray on the list

The audacity of someone in America mocking British firearms legislation is almost too much. It does explain a lot though.