The American Police

deuse said:
Don't use the royal we.

I am very hard of hearing and never been shot.

Oh my. Now your going with blind people.
None of that matters as it wasn't the case. Please stick to facts.
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I'm not, and have clearly never been, talking about the facts of this case.

I've been talking about how people defending police just shooting those who have not complied with instructions is going to have implications when there are people in society who simply may not be able to follow these instructions.

I hope you follow instruction better than you follow conversation, Deuse, wouldn't want it to be you next...
 
I dunno if you can't put your hands up or in a visible place when instructed to do so by an armed policeman then you probably shouldn't be out in public without a carer. If it's a case of being too high on drugs to do it then maybe accept personal responsibility and don't take drugs.

99.9% of people getting shot in these circumstances are career criminals not people hard of hearing or disabled with something that prevents them from following orders. Policing in America is also vastly different to the UK, any time they stop someone for a routine traffic violation they could be shot and killed. It must be extremely stressful compared to what our police get up to.
 
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There are reasons that guns take so many lives via homicide in the US

In 2013, firearm deaths accounted for over 11 percent of all years of potential life lost among the black population, but less than 6 percent of all years of potential life lost among the white population.

White suicides, black homicides

Gun deaths also vary dramatically by type. The vast majority (77 percent) of white gun deaths are suicides; less than one in five (19 percent) is a homicide. These figures are nearly opposite in the black population, where only 14 percent of gun deaths are suicides but 82 percent are homicides:
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mmj_uk said:
I dunno if you can't put your hands up or in a visible place when instructed to do so by an armed policeman then you probably shouldn't be out in public without a carer. If it's a case of being too high on drugs to do it then maybe accept personal responsibility and don't take drugs.

99.9% of people getting shot in these circumstances are career criminals not people hard of hearing or disabled with something that prevents them from following orders. Policing in America is also vastly different to the UK, any time they stop someone for a routine traffic violation they could be shot and killed. It must be extremely stressful compared to what our police get up to.
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I think some of the problem for smaller police forces in the USA is a lack of training budget. Some cops out in the sticks don’t even get to go to a police academy and any tactical training is self-funded.

A mate of mine went through a year of training and evaluation to get his blue ticket with the armed airport police and the great majority of that training was threat identification and using the appropriate force in response. Obviously, being airport police means that you have a lot of backup arriving very fast, so containing a threat until the cavalry arrives is usually possible.

A lone deputy in rural America might be the only LEO for miles and backup either doesn’t exist or will arrive way too late.
 
Lord-Jaffa said:
Once you remove suicide and gang on gang gun related deaths, the US murder rates arent too much different from europe, these both skew the stats and gang related is heavily region specific.
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I just looked up accidental gun deaths. There are far fewer than I would have thought- well under a thousand. I was genuinely surprised, given such high ownership rates.
 
2004typer said:
Now - if the USA would ban guns, and the absolute likelihood is that a suspect would have a knife etc only, then it's very easy to keep your distance and have a very different outcome.
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How very stupid, its illegal to carry a knife in the UK you know, so they're essentially "banned" but many people are killed with knives each year, and what about screwdrivers and stanley blades? better ban those aswell.

Banning guns means only the criminals will have guns and not law abiding citizens.
 
Johno please? said:
How very stupid, its illegal to carry a knife in the UK you know, so they're essentially "banned" but many people are killed with knives each year, and what about screwdrivers and stanley blades? better ban those aswell.

Banning guns means only the criminals will have guns and not law abiding citizens.
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There is, however, a world of difference between close-quarters combat with a knife, and pulling the trigger on a gun from a distance.

The majority of law abiding citizens would not want to own a knife or get into close quarters combat.

Put guns on the table and suddenly law abiding people *do* want to own a lethal weapon. And there's also a morbid fascination with guns for some reason as well. I'm not sure the same is true of knives.

Ultimately I hope the UK never, ever legalises guns. Law abiding people are still frequently paranoid, irrational, panicked, etc. Bring guns and mass gun ownership into the equation and this country would become just as bad as the US.

e: Mentioning the UK here because, logically, an argument against banning guns should probably hold as an argument for legalising them.
 
FoxEye said:
There is, however, a world of difference between close-quarters combat with a knife, and pulling the trigger on a gun from a distance.

The majority of law abiding citizens would not want to own a knife or get into close quarters combat.

Put guns on the table and suddenly law abiding people *do* want to own a lethal weapon. And there's also a morbid fascination with guns for some reason as well. I'm not sure the same is true of knives.

Ultimately I hope the UK never, ever legalises guns. Law abiding people are still frequently paranoid, irrational, panicked, etc. Bring guns and mass gun ownership into the equation and this country would become just as bad as the US.

e: Mentioning the UK here because, logically, an argument against banning guns should probably hold as an argument for legalising them.
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Yea, I also don't think introducing mass gun ownership would be a good idea in the UK, just that "banning" stuff doesnt really work and wouldnt work in Americas situation.

I would like to be able to carry an OC spray for self defense though.
 
FoxEye said:
There is, however, a world of difference between close-quarters combat with a knife, and pulling the trigger on a gun from a distance.

The majority of law abiding citizens would not want to own a knife or get into close quarters combat.
.
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What about these citizens that have gone around with a big blade killing people in the UK?
 
FoxEye said:
There is, however, a world of difference between close-quarters combat with a knife, and pulling the trigger on a gun from a distance.

The majority of law abiding citizens would not want to own a knife or get into close quarters combat.

Put guns on the table and suddenly law abiding people *do* want to own a lethal weapon. And there's also a morbid fascination with guns for some reason as well. I'm not sure the same is true of knives.

Ultimately I hope the UK never, ever legalises guns. Law abiding people are still frequently paranoid, irrational, panicked, etc. Bring guns and mass gun ownership into the equation and this country would become just as bad as the US.

e: Mentioning the UK here because, logically, an argument against banning guns should probably hold as an argument for legalising them.
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You do know that you can legally own and use firearms in the U.K.?
 
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