Caporegime
How the hell did this fire manage to kill more than 30 people? Did they have no fire escapes? No fire doors? No sprinklers? Was everything locked?
The anime thread sequel (it's still not as good as the Manga though),
- Thread starter Werewolf
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Caporegime
How the hell did this fire manage to kill more than 30 people? Did they have no fire escapes? No fire doors? No sprinklers? Was everything locked?
I don't understand that myself, the roof seems unscathed also, so people on the top floor could have gone up there and wait it out. The ones on the ground floor could go out the window.
They say the biggest killer in fire is smoke, may be that's why due to all the paper.
Associate
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- 17 Apr 2018
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No doubt its probably an old building and they only had the "adequate" requirements for safety installed, according to IGN I believe is what I saw, lot of the current and past projects are lost from the fire.
In other news, I've preordered Gundam Wing part 1 which did have pre-order price of £35.
In other news, I've preordered Gundam Wing part 1 which did have pre-order price of £35.
Associate
from what I read the building was up to fire requirements and had pass an inspection few months ago, reason given for no sprinklers was that it wasn't a fire requirement for that building license use. also they were renting the building so it up to the building owner weather to install sprinklers or not, as again it wasn't a fire requirement for it license use. most of the people were killed on the stairs either trying for the roof or to get to lower floor level to escape via window.
I was tempted to buy the gundam wing part 1 blu-ray but decide to hold out for the ultimate edition which they going to release that will include both parts plus the movie/ova and the other ova they did.
Soldato
It's said in several of the reports that the roof access was locked and quite a few of the bodies were found on the stairs leading from the 2nd floor to the roof (probably overcome by the smoke).
These Gundam releases are a bit difficult for me, I'm not the biggest Gundam fan and whilst I have some series and movies of it I don't know if I really can be bothered to pickup anymore
These Gundam releases are a bit difficult for me, I'm not the biggest Gundam fan and whilst I have some series and movies of it I don't know if I really can be bothered to pickup anymore
Caporegime
So... no sprinklers, and no fire escape. And most likely no fire doors either.
Death trap.
We don't know that. I'm pretty sure most office work places in the UK wouldn't cope very well with a deliberate 10 gallon pertol fire blocking the exits.
Caporegime
Fire safety standard fail right there.
He only blocked one exit. All they needed was a back door, a side door, or a fire escape on the floors above. Hell, a single ground floor window would be enough.
No, many buildings will have the same standards, as IIRC the building had two exits served via separate stairwells.
You don't need a dedicated fire exit if your building has two separated normal exits and under a certain number of people inside, Fire exits tend to be for high occupancy buildings, buildings with high risks, and those that are large enough that you would otherwise have to go a long way to reach an exit.
Effectively you can have just two exits if the layout of the building is such that they are separate and your staff numbers are below the point where under regulations it's assumed they can exit via one in a certain time* (also in many areas things like windows that can open wide enough on the ground floor may be considered ok**)
Many supermarkets only have something like 2 fire exits plus the main entrance (and possibly a way through the loading area) despite having far more people in them, in a far larger area, and most of those people will only really be aware of the main entrance.
Most office buildings that size in the UK and US would probably not have a dedicated fire exit if they had two normal points of entry, and not high rise as under certain size/occupancy levels you don't need specific "fire exits", a normal entrance and back entrance will do, as the assumption is the fire won't spread that fast.
Sprinklers don't stop most fires, at best they're designed to slow a small fire (say a waste paper bin or electrical fault in an appliance) from spreading whilst people have a chance to grab an extinguisher or get out, and to some degree suppress smoke.
They do next to nothing in regards to a larger established fire, or if an accelerate has been used over a large area
They are also a risk in themselves in many instances where you have equipment or materials that can be damaged (your insurance will look at the risk of a fire where they might help vs the risk of an accidental discharge potentially causing hundreds of thousands of pounds worth of damage).
Firedoors - if the offices were open plan (as many studios are, not to mention other offices), there wouldn't be many firedoors in place except at the stairwells etc, and that's going to be down to local fire regulations of which Japan is from memory pretty strict on, so if it had passed a fire safety inspection you can be fairly certain it was up to code.
Unfortunately building designs and fire safety standards tend to be based on normal fires and related events, they don't take into account some nut with a grudge who creates a fire that in seconds reaches the sort of level a normal fire would reach probably only after the building had been fully evacuated and the fire service on site.
*IIRC in the UK we work to the assumption that X number can pass through a standard door in Y time, and you have to be able to show that you have enough capacity to exceed that when Z number of exits are blocked (so if you can get 50 people out through an exit in a minute and the rules say you have two minutes to clear the building then two exits would be enough for 100 people as it would allow for one to be blocked).
**I went to a school once where the secondary fire excape route for one room (only 6 people) involved breaking a glass vial on the window lock to allow the window to open through 90 degrees, then onto a flat roof that had a sort of guideway, and down a ladder, or a jump if you were feeling energetic/in a hurry/stupid (as a kid in a drill).
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Soldato
Ok, reports this morning (via one of the Japanese newspapers) quote the police investigating the incident telling the NHK that apparently the roof access was openable but the smoke spread so quickly that people were overcome before they could get to it.
The building apparently met the rules for fire safety for a light office, passed a check at the end of last year, had regular drills as required and had things like "hanging walls" to prevent the spread of smoke ... but the spiral staircase near where the fire was started acted like a chimney spreading smoke very quickly throughout the building.
src: http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ201907230023.html
As Werewolf indicates requirements for fire safety in offices, even in the UK, can be a bit of a minefield. The office I used to work in was on the borderline of acceptable exits given the number of people in the buiding and frankly i cant say that a lot of us felt particularly safe in it. My current office is a lot smaller but has way more exits being an older building with a complicated layout.
The building apparently met the rules for fire safety for a light office, passed a check at the end of last year, had regular drills as required and had things like "hanging walls" to prevent the spread of smoke ... but the spiral staircase near where the fire was started acted like a chimney spreading smoke very quickly throughout the building.
src: http://www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/AJ201907230023.html
As Werewolf indicates requirements for fire safety in offices, even in the UK, can be a bit of a minefield. The office I used to work in was on the borderline of acceptable exits given the number of people in the buiding and frankly i cant say that a lot of us felt particularly safe in it. My current office is a lot smaller but has way more exits being an older building with a complicated layout.
Associate
- Joined
- 17 Apr 2018
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The owner of the building will probably get blamed by families but in the eye of the "law" then the owner probably safe potentially over the whole thing.
Like I said the building has probably met the safety requirements which I'm right, my office doesn't have sprinklers either but it has 3 fire escape which 2 of them are entrance to the building.
Like I said the building has probably met the safety requirements which I'm right, my office doesn't have sprinklers either but it has 3 fire escape which 2 of them are entrance to the building.
Caporegime
Finished Baki. It's a good sequel to the original. Much more philosophical. The violence has a personal, reflective tone.
Suffers from some pacing issues in the second season, and leaves the story wide open for a third.
Now watching Akame ga Kill!
Suffers from some pacing issues in the second season, and leaves the story wide open for a third.
Now watching Akame ga Kill!
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Caporegime
I think a lot of your guys have been to Akihabara, which is your favourite store for Blurays & Figurines amongst the sea of stores in the area?
Last time I went into one of them near the station and it had like 10 floors, i somehow managed to spend like 2hrs there without trying...i want to streamline the use of my time more this trip and go into only the good ones.
Last time I went into one of them near the station and it had like 10 floors, i somehow managed to spend like 2hrs there without trying...i want to streamline the use of my time more this trip and go into only the good ones.
Caporegime
Jealous, I wish I could wipe my memory and watch it again, LOVE it!
Caporegime
Never seen it...weeeeeee! Something to watch!
Caporegime
Soldato
For blu-rays don't limit yourself to Akihabara ... Book Off. The one is Akihabara is ok but there are also good ones in East and West Shinjuku, Ikebukoro and many other places. Think CEX but nigh on perfect nick. With the price of Japanese media second hand is a very logical choice.
Consider; My Neighbour Totoro BD on Amazon UK is £16 (BD+DVD), on Amazon JP it is £40 (27% discount) and CDJapan £50 (before tax, ~£55 after). Book Off price (which you can look up as they also sell on Yahoo Auctions) is ~£38. A new BD in a physical store is likely to be the same cost as CDJapan.
If you are looking for something in particular then consider getting a months prime trial and getting things delivered to your hotel. Japanese media is expensive so Amazons 26% off is worth it if you can't find things in Book Off given that most things are delivered next day.
Traders (various stores) isn't bad in Akihabara and one of the upper floors in Yodabashi Camera has a reasonable store for BDs/DVDs. Actually did tend to find it harder to find Japanese films new in stores over Japanese versions of western films. I know for a couple I was looking for, which were relatively new releases at the time, were quite difficult to get hold of.
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Caporegime
Good point about prices being cheaper on Amazon.
I might stick with figurines and plushies.
Soldato
Figurines etc .... worth looking in Mandarake and over at the various stores at Nakano Broadway.