The latter, I don't think it's possible to prevent kids from seeing this kind of thing. REGARDLESS OF WHETHER IT'S BANNED IN THIS COUNTRY OR NOT.
The BBFC are at it again..
- Thread starter ajones32
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The latter, I don't think it's possible to prevent kids from seeing this kind of thing. REGARDLESS OF WHETHER IT'S BANNED IN THIS COUNTRY OR NOT.
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It’s sad some people are so happy to see the further erosion of our freedom when we have so little left.
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It's better than to have it readily available in the shops.
lolololol - if you think we have so little freedom, I suggest you go and move to another country, Burma for example.
Oh come on, is that the best you can do? You're better than that!
Just because there's another country or countries out there with less freedom than we have, doesn't mean we should have less freedom of choice too.
The only way it would be readily available is if a a parent/ adult buys it on the childs behalf.
I think as mature gamers (18+) we should be able to choose which games we want to play, within reason of course. The media jumps on the Kids get violent and kill people bandwagon and blame it on Music, Videos, Games etc where as a study has shown the only people who are affected by violence are violent people anyway. My brother is getting a PS3 for his kids for Christmas and he lets them play games such as BF2142 Half life 2 etc on the PC, but he plays through the game himself first and see's if he thinks it will be ok for them (like he does some 12a films), most of the time they just want to play multiplayer over LAN while he is with them. He was interested in the parental controls on the PS3 where you block kids from playing certain age games so he could play what ever he liked and they could only play suitable games. If for example though they wanted to play a more mature game against each other eg RFOM, he could let them play under his ID under supervision or set up some offline death matches for them to play against each other. I see doing things like playing LAN games shooting each other and such not much different than when I was a kid playing cowboys and Indians or army's with toy guns ( but less realistic) you knew it was a game and thats all it ever was. Maybe if parental controls was highlighted more or enforced then the media would not need to talk about kids playing violent games, where we know by law they shouldn't be, as the game is rated 18 for adults for good reason.
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The only people who actually care enough to post angrily against this banning are adolecent minded people, most will be under 20 those not are being very immature. Until shops tighten up on sales of games to minors and until parents get the message that it is NOT okay for their 10 year old to play GTA or manhunt (which is very much not the case these days, "its just a game" and all) then the BBFC action is correct, if a little harsh.
Like has already been said, its not like its a worldwide ban, i could import it from the EU with my VISA card any time i like, why? Because im an adult with the means to choose. Putting a game like this in the UK shops with the current UK mentality toward gaming is irresponsible. I do not see this as a matter of freedom or liberty, i see it as a flat out indictment of uk attitudes, parental attitudes and retailers responsibilities.
The fact is im no violence prude, wonder how many people have heard of the classic "snuff" movie, "Flowers of the flesh and blood" where a guy in a samurai suit dissects a drugged up hooker bit by bit and eats parts of her. Is it real? Hell no snuff is largley a myth, but its some twisted S$"£ and i love it because i find that sort of stuff truly interesting (saddam execution anyone?). But the fact is, a violent videogame like this, placed in a shop WILL sell to minors. And regaurdless of whether it DOES affect them adversley they shouldnt be playing it.
Besides which, manhunt is largely like the slasher flicks of the 70's and 80's empty visceral gore-porn with an anti-establishment subtheme marketing hook.
Like has already been said, its not like its a worldwide ban, i could import it from the EU with my VISA card any time i like, why? Because im an adult with the means to choose. Putting a game like this in the UK shops with the current UK mentality toward gaming is irresponsible. I do not see this as a matter of freedom or liberty, i see it as a flat out indictment of uk attitudes, parental attitudes and retailers responsibilities.
The fact is im no violence prude, wonder how many people have heard of the classic "snuff" movie, "Flowers of the flesh and blood" where a guy in a samurai suit dissects a drugged up hooker bit by bit and eats parts of her. Is it real? Hell no snuff is largley a myth, but its some twisted S$"£ and i love it because i find that sort of stuff truly interesting (saddam execution anyone?). But the fact is, a violent videogame like this, placed in a shop WILL sell to minors. And regaurdless of whether it DOES affect them adversley they shouldnt be playing it.
Besides which, manhunt is largely like the slasher flicks of the 70's and 80's empty visceral gore-porn with an anti-establishment subtheme marketing hook.
I can see both sides of the argument - to some extent.
However here's one for the "no-one has ever said games don't cause agression" faction: http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2170006/court-rules-video-games
Yes it's a legal ruling, not a case study. But I also remember not long ago a study saying that video games promoted concentration and problem solving.
At the end of the day there is always a counter to every argument.
Is Manhunt 2 gratuitous? Probably.
Should it be banned? Probably not.
I'm in the 'parental control' camp personally, but it's not always cut and dried.
Hence the 'probaby' clause above
However here's one for the "no-one has ever said games don't cause agression" faction: http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2170006/court-rules-video-games
Yes it's a legal ruling, not a case study. But I also remember not long ago a study saying that video games promoted concentration and problem solving.
At the end of the day there is always a counter to every argument.
Is Manhunt 2 gratuitous? Probably.
Should it be banned? Probably not.
I'm in the 'parental control' camp personally, but it's not always cut and dried.
Hence the 'probaby' clause above
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The other aspect to consider is that by banning the game they are sending a message to games developers. Something along the lines of 'we wont tolerate this sort of game'. The games industry is driven by money, and not being able to release a game in one or more markets will cost someone, somewhere.
And then maybe in a board room at a games developer sometime in the future, when it is suggested that the company spends a significant amount of money developing a game that will probably only sell due to controversial, cheap, graphic content, they might think twice.
One can hope.
And then maybe in a board room at a games developer sometime in the future, when it is suggested that the company spends a significant amount of money developing a game that will probably only sell due to controversial, cheap, graphic content, they might think twice.
One can hope.
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What they should do is create a new rating called 18T, where the T stands for Tested.
If you want to buy the game, you have to have undergone a psych evaluation test, to say that you are not susceptible to violent behaviour.
Maybe they could even force games consoles to have fingerprint scanners, so that only people registered to be able to play a game can access the content
Honestly I won't be buying the game whether it comes out or not, the first one was boring IMHO.
If you want to buy the game, you have to have undergone a psych evaluation test, to say that you are not susceptible to violent behaviour.
Maybe they could even force games consoles to have fingerprint scanners, so that only people registered to be able to play a game can access the content
Honestly I won't be buying the game whether it comes out or not, the first one was boring IMHO.
Yes, one can hope.
Violent games, like the aforemention Gears of War, maybe the next step will be banning those in this country too, after all, it's happened elsewhere. Once they manage to get one ban to stick, they can move on. Maybe you think Gears of War should be banned as well though? Or maybe it's not too bad, and you can make your own choice as to whether to buy it or not, not have some comittee somewhere decide for you?
In the end, we'll have cutsey games with flowers, and pretty colours, and all politically correct, so as not to cause offence to a single soul, who could potentially exist.
OK, maybe that last statement was a bit OTT, but for crying out loud, banning these games isn't at all the right way of going about things.
If it really was just violent rubbish, and nothing else, it wouldn't do very well anyway, wouldn't make any money, and they'd not make another.
I honestly can't see how banning a video game like this can be anything but wrong and bad.
Tighten up laws about games being sold to kids?
Sure!
Have a bloody great sticker on the front saying "WARNING: DON'T GIVE THIS TO YOUR KIDS" but don't take the choice away from the average man on the street.
V1N.
Sorry, I wasn't going to post any more in this thread. I seem to have got drawn back into it again, I have made my point though, and all I can do is repeat myself, so I'll go again now. People are free to disagree, I just wish they'd think about what it is they're disagreeing to. More censorship? People that believe that because something's not good enough for them, it isn't good enough for anybody else? Very dictatorship indeed!
The national news on BBC1 will be having another go at video games this lunch time. I will miss the report as I have to get back to work, but if anyone does watch, I would be interested to hear how badly they **** this up again.
Oh and this seemed as good as any a place to ask about it.
Oh and this seemed as good as any a place to ask about it.
Soldato
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They didn't **** it up last time if your talking about the Halo3 incident. People here just took it way out of context and started ranting.
Thanks for the heads up, just turned the telly on, hopefully haven't missed it.
After reading your post, had a quick look at the BBC News website, and found this
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7034179.stm
More to do with the effect to violent games on kids.
Not really what I've been talking about on here.
I'm all for ratings, and preventing kids getting hold of 18 games, in the same way they should be prevented getting 18 films. Maybe a big campaign, informing parents that the age certificates on video games are to be taken as seriously as those on DVDs.
Not a reason to ban anything
V1N.
News report wasn't anything much.
Just saying there's going to be a review about the kids playing violent games.
Personally, I think it would be best to have a TV campaign, educating parents that the age ratings they see on video games, should be taken as seriously as the ratings on movies. If they wouldn't want their kids watching Hostel, then they shouldn't let them buy 18 games either.
Also, as mentioned previously, maybe stickers too, like they do with audio CDs. WARNING: Explicit... whatever... scenes of murder/violence etc.
Something to make parents think twice about whether to buy a certain game for their kids.
At the end of the day, I don't see why we (as stable* level headed adults) should be penalised if parents can't do parenting!
V1N.
* I put the word stable, and level headed, in an attempt at jest, after some of my strong comments earlier in the thread
I hope people can see where I'm coming from though. Banning Manhunt II opens the door to further bans now in the future. Jack Thompson must be having a party!
Just saying there's going to be a review about the kids playing violent games.
Personally, I think it would be best to have a TV campaign, educating parents that the age ratings they see on video games, should be taken as seriously as the ratings on movies. If they wouldn't want their kids watching Hostel, then they shouldn't let them buy 18 games either.
Also, as mentioned previously, maybe stickers too, like they do with audio CDs. WARNING: Explicit... whatever... scenes of murder/violence etc.
Something to make parents think twice about whether to buy a certain game for their kids.
At the end of the day, I don't see why we (as stable* level headed adults) should be penalised if parents can't do parenting!
V1N.
* I put the word stable, and level headed, in an attempt at jest, after some of my strong comments earlier in the thread
I hope people can see where I'm coming from though. Banning Manhunt II opens the door to further bans now in the future. Jack Thompson must be having a party!
Soldato
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Just saw the report and the emphasis was most defiantly on the need for parents to be aware of what they are supplying their children with. Overall it was a balanced and fair report and the government are at least voicing sensible arguments thus far. It certainly wasn't a call to witch hunt and ban every game us adults like to play.
I agree with V1N that newer methods of educating parents is the way to go forward, although it is perhaps just an exceptional case we are seeing with Manhunt 2.(I hope)
I agree with V1N that newer methods of educating parents is the way to go forward, although it is perhaps just an exceptional case we are seeing with Manhunt 2.(I hope)
Well, I was playing games back in the 80's on C64's when I was 7 and I found that the text adventures and stuff give me great concentration and pratical thinking. And good hand and eye co-ordination. Sure the graphics weren't as realistic as they are today, but to blame games for violence in young people is completely wrong and below are examples of crimes which I don't think has video games involved.
1) What caused Jack the Ripper to go on his serial killing spree back in the 1880's. I don't think it was caused by Video Games, or movies in cinema. He must have had problems in his head.
2) What caused the 2 young boys who murdered the Bulger baby back in the early 90's and chuck him in front of the train. 8 bit games weren't realistic enough to cause violence tendencies. And I don't recall movies with that story line to re-enact.
There is 2 examples of violence which I like to know what outside influence had on those killing. Drinking and smoking and doing drugs is the biggest problem in violence, as addicts need a fix and will do anything to get the money to get the fix. Banning games ain't the answer, parents not buying games just to get piece and quite from their kids to stop them nagging.
Anthony
1) What caused Jack the Ripper to go on his serial killing spree back in the 1880's. I don't think it was caused by Video Games, or movies in cinema. He must have had problems in his head.
2) What caused the 2 young boys who murdered the Bulger baby back in the early 90's and chuck him in front of the train. 8 bit games weren't realistic enough to cause violence tendencies. And I don't recall movies with that story line to re-enact.
There is 2 examples of violence which I like to know what outside influence had on those killing. Drinking and smoking and doing drugs is the biggest problem in violence, as addicts need a fix and will do anything to get the money to get the fix. Banning games ain't the answer, parents not buying games just to get piece and quite from their kids to stop them nagging.
Anthony
When this ban by the BBFC was first announced, I was outraged. I could NOT believe that a computer game, irrespective of what it contained could be branded as so bad that it shouldn't go on sale.
Foul language I accept. I refuse to believe that some bloke with a machette is going to say to his enemy "O excuse me old chum, care to step aside yar." It adds realism. I neither accept that it's acceptable to have sound and graphics that aren't realistic in to days games. If I can race a car round a track and have scratches dents, then I sure as hell wanna see bloody and a shout of "****" when I attack someone. Sick? Sad? Too much? Sorry, I'm been honest.
If I can play Battlefield 2, listen to ANYONE in the world come out with absolutely anything, f-words, c-words, racism, threats, the reward of "a beautiful head shot" shown in multiple angles and even have the potential to show pornography (even god forbid child pornography) as 'spray signatures', then I fail to understand why this game is banned when others have gone through fine.
No one will convince me otherwise, I'm old enough and wise enough to know right from wrong. It just doesn't make sense.
However...
Today I look at it differently. I don't think at all that computer games are responsible for crimes, I think anyone who uses that excuse is just using it as a cliché because it worked years ago and they'll try it again.
But I do now think that perhaps the ban is good. If it means it'll stop mindless ****'s going out and literally butchering people/kids and been offered the chance to blame it on a game, then perhaps it's a good thing.
Already this month there's reports about a child throwing himself off a roof to his death because he wasn't allowed his PC. People (kids too) dropping dead in China for all these massive WOW nights. I actually saw (sorry, but with respect to the child I won't supply a link), but I actually saw pictures of a child who had been cut into pieces and his body hid (badly!) in an attic because he owed some virtual money on an online game.
Maybe I and other have got it wrong. Maybe the BBFC are protecting people (I use the word people as it's not just kids) who are more impressionable. Yeas ago they'd be in an asylum, today (due to social interaction and councilling) these more impressionable people are more in the public and can get hold of this material far easier.
If it's banned from the shops, then sell it at Adult stores (like sex material is), and again, I did think this was a perfect solution. But of course any 'sane' and over 18 person could buy this, leak it as a torrent and it's in the open again.
Gonna sound an old fart now, but I'm now with the BBFC on this. Just a sign of the world we live in.
Foul language I accept. I refuse to believe that some bloke with a machette is going to say to his enemy "O excuse me old chum, care to step aside yar." It adds realism. I neither accept that it's acceptable to have sound and graphics that aren't realistic in to days games. If I can race a car round a track and have scratches dents, then I sure as hell wanna see bloody and a shout of "****" when I attack someone. Sick? Sad? Too much? Sorry, I'm been honest.
If I can play Battlefield 2, listen to ANYONE in the world come out with absolutely anything, f-words, c-words, racism, threats, the reward of "a beautiful head shot" shown in multiple angles and even have the potential to show pornography (even god forbid child pornography) as 'spray signatures', then I fail to understand why this game is banned when others have gone through fine.
No one will convince me otherwise, I'm old enough and wise enough to know right from wrong. It just doesn't make sense.
However...
Today I look at it differently. I don't think at all that computer games are responsible for crimes, I think anyone who uses that excuse is just using it as a cliché because it worked years ago and they'll try it again.
But I do now think that perhaps the ban is good. If it means it'll stop mindless ****'s going out and literally butchering people/kids and been offered the chance to blame it on a game, then perhaps it's a good thing.
Already this month there's reports about a child throwing himself off a roof to his death because he wasn't allowed his PC. People (kids too) dropping dead in China for all these massive WOW nights. I actually saw (sorry, but with respect to the child I won't supply a link), but I actually saw pictures of a child who had been cut into pieces and his body hid (badly!) in an attic because he owed some virtual money on an online game.
Maybe I and other have got it wrong. Maybe the BBFC are protecting people (I use the word people as it's not just kids) who are more impressionable. Yeas ago they'd be in an asylum, today (due to social interaction and councilling) these more impressionable people are more in the public and can get hold of this material far easier.
If it's banned from the shops, then sell it at Adult stores (like sex material is), and again, I did think this was a perfect solution. But of course any 'sane' and over 18 person could buy this, leak it as a torrent and it's in the open again.
Gonna sound an old fart now, but I'm now with the BBFC on this. Just a sign of the world we live in.