* The Comic Book and Graphic Novel thread *

[J.T]

Thor: Still a white male, name passed to new wielder of Mjolnir - October 2014
Cap: still a white male, passed on to another white male, passed back to the first white male, passed on to a black male (August 2014), still used by the original white male
Iron Man: Tony Stark is still a white male, Riri Williams is a black female
Wolverine: Wolverine is a dead white male, his clone daughter is a white female - November 2015.

It's not like it happened overnight, or you've cared enough to post about it during the last 2 years



I'm having a hard time keeping a straight face imagining that white males are under-represented in Marvel comics



Isn't Thor on it's 6th or 7th run? I don't think it's ever been a real smash without tying into films. Original Thor still exists by the way, he just can't wield Mjolnir because (Marvel does terrible crossovers) reasons.

I'm confused with your objection - isn't the new guy Sam Wilson, who was a new black male hero who was trained by Cap and so on? Did you have the same concerns when Bucky took over? The fact that OG Cap's new comic is called Steve Rogers: Captain America seems to make it tough to get upset about this one?

Iron Man - not stupid, because an old man bankrolling a teen into becoming a hero can be awesome - see Batman Beyond. Tony still exists and still makes suits. He's just got someone else to fly them (see War Machine, Pepper Potts, Iron Legion, etc)

Wolverine is dead again - I believe that's now so many times that they had to make up new numbers. X-23 has took over - she's a clone of Wolverine and has been around since 2004. There's no point caring anyway, unless Marvel gets some deal in place with Fox, they are going to kill off all the X-Men titles anyway (see Fantastic Four)

So, 1 new character, 3 out of 4 have direct ties to the original character, 3 out of 4 original characters still exist, no actual changes to race/gender.



Depends why you didn't like New 52 Batman? Rebirth is excellent so far, but we've not even seen all the first issues yet.

Just my opinion dude, no need to go all SJW on me! *Joke*

Good points however my Main objection is to lack of creativity rather than the Heroes them selves being re-gendered/raced, as I said I am all for different gender/race heroes but the fact they feel the need to change existing ones rather than create new ones just proves they have no faith in what they are doing as they can go back to the original heroes if sales go to pot because of the change.

Come on Marvel, Grow some balls and start a whole new Hero (Black/Woman/Transgender/whatever) from scratch in their own comic.

 

[shorttricky]

Just my opinion dude, no need to go all SJW on me! *Joke*

Good points however my Main objection is to lack of creativity rather than the Heroes them selves being re-gendered/raced, as I said I am all for different gender/race heroes but the fact they feel the need to change existing ones rather than create new ones just proves they have no faith in what they are doing as they can go back to the original heroes if sales go to pot because of the change.

Come on Marvel, Grow some balls and start a whole new Hero (Black/Woman/Transgender/whatever) from scratch in their own comic.

I think I'd probably go the other way, and say the reason it's stuck out for you is that Marvel have been totally set in their ways for so many years.

I'm more of a DC guy, which means I've been through numerous passings over of the mantle - whether it's replacement Batmen, new Robins, multiple Supermen, a cycling roster of Green Lanterns - they're also good at cycling characters out into their own identity (like Nightwing, Red Hood, Steel).

Marvel's insistence that the characters can only be those people is the lack of creativity. That's why Steve Rogers isn't Captain America except in the comic with his name on it. Compare that to what DC has just done to Superman, which seems totally minor yet utterly engrossing.

By the way, you could have also mentioned Miles Morales (Spiderman) and Spider-Gwen

 

[J.T]

I think you are on to something there...

I am also a big DC fan and I think you are right we are more used to big changes so when Marvel do things like this is kind of sticks out more to me where as DC "appear" to handle it in a much better way that doesn't step on the toes of fans or the way a hero used to be.

Very well put Shorttricky!

 

[No1newts]

Guess you have not been that up to date. Because they launched DC Rebirth in May. I won't post any spoilers. But you will be pleasantly surprised/shocked with what you read. Especially regarding Superman and Batman.

I'm not, I just read collected editions so I'm always a year or so behind. If I'll be pleasantly surprised that will do for me.

With a title rebirth (and I have heard some rumours) I guess there is another flashpoint/convergence event to reset things again?

Is Rebirth better than the New 52 stuff...especially where Batman is concerned?

I thought new 52 was brilliant for the Bat family as a whole, same as CK I don't atriculafly understand the hate toward it.

Highlight for me was probably Batgirl, great run, though this new bubblegum batgirl they've just released has seen me bail. I feel it's actually turned a strong female lead into a teeny, underpowered PITA.

The main Bat title, Batman and Robin, Red Hood were all great and Batwing was a nice title.

Court/City of Owls, hated it...was poor after what i'd been used to with Batman pre "new 52".

As others have said the other bat family are great. I actually liked court of owls, thought it was a pretty strong story. Just my opinion mind.

I think I'd probably go the other way, and say the reason it's stuck out for you is that Marvel have been totally set in their ways for so many years.

I'm more of a DC guy, which means I've been through numerous passings over of the mantle - whether it's replacement Batmen, new Robins, multiple Supermen, a cycling roster of Green Lanterns - they're also good at cycling characters out into their own identity (like Nightwing, Red Hood, Steel).

Marvel's insistence that the characters can only be those people is the lack of creativity. That's why Steve Rogers isn't Captain America except in the comic with his name on it. Compare that to what DC has just done to Superman, which seems totally minor yet utterly engrossing.

By the way, you could have also mentioned Miles Morales (Spiderman) and Spider-Gwen

As above I just find it lazy writing replacing the characters as opposed to creating something new. I'm more of a DC fan myself as well and I have always found the DC mantle moves well done and relatively subtle and scripted. I found the marvel stuff felt a lot more like a "HOLY ****!! We aren't diverse enough, replace half the main cast, **** continuity" I know I'm doing them a (slight) disservice but I do think they handled the whole thing poorly.

Re Miles I'm actually a big Spider-Man fan but haven't read any titles since Sinister Spider-Man (I think that's the title with Oc replacing Peter) so I'm not actually sure if Miles has supplanted Peter or if they are working in tandem in the new hectic spider verse stuff (which whilst I haven't read a lot my start point is to dislike it )

Regarding your point on the X scrap off, it's pretty cut throat from marvel and it will be interesting if they follow through on their early threats on it.

 

[shorttricky]

With a title rebirth (and I have heard some rumours) I guess there is another flashpoint/convergence event to reset things again?

There is a something, yes

I can't recommend Rebirth #1 enough, but I suspect it's a love it or hate it thing.

As others have said the other bat family are great. I actually liked court of owls, thought it was a pretty strong story. Just my opinion mind.

The correct opinion

I never realised anyone didn't like the new 52 batman, I thought it was one of the strongest runs in years, especially from the supporting cast - Red Hood/Batwoman/Batgirl/Batwing were all great books in their own right.

Regarding your point on the X scrap off, it's pretty cut throat from marvel and it will be interesting if they follow through on their early threats on it.

They certainly killed fantastic four in a hurry

Chris Claremont said that writers had been told not to create any new X-Men as they would become film property of Fox. I'd imagine that if they can get the Inhumans to hit, they'll be done with X-titles - unless they can make a Sony type deal.

 

[No1newts]

There is a something, yes

I can't recommend Rebirth #1 enough, but I suspect it's a love it or hate it thing.

I'm still toddling along at CE speed so I'm a while away from rebirth. Do I need any other titles beyond bat family & JL to have a clue? I get a bit of superman, though he's way down my list (too vanilla) and I've never been hugely tempted by Flash either.

The correct opinion

I never realised anyone didn't like the new 52 batman, I thought it was one of the strongest runs in years, especially from the supporting cast - Red Hood/Batwoman/Batgirl/Batwing were all great books in their own right.

I agree whole thing was a treat, even Catwoman was decent though it drifted toward the end. Loved Red Hood, a great read and loved his brutality though it will be a shame to see him & Ray without the Princess

After loathing Damian I even developed a soft spot for him by the end and I thought the work they did on the Bruce/Damian relationship was impressive stuff.

Have you tried the new bubblegum batgirl stuff? I tried a tester and hated it.

They certainly killed fantastic four in a hurry

Chris Claremont said that writers had been told not to create any new X-Men as they would become film property of Fox. I'd imagine that if they can get the Inhumans to hit, they'll be done with X-titles - unless they can make a Sony type deal.

How did they even do away with the FF? I was never a huge fan of them if I'm honest.

Yeah if they get the rights they'll kick it off again, I wouldn't hugely object to a couple of year hiatus for X titles of it meant them returning to the marvel/Disney fold, though I'm not hugely sold on the Inhumans as of yet.

IIRC the reason behind killing off Logan/doing old man Logan was another rights battle?

 

[SixTwoSix]

Sounds as though I need to give Owls a read again, perhaps was in the wrong frame of mind at the time. I just remember being really disappointed with the run.

 

[shorttricky]

I'm still toddling along at CE speed so I'm a while away from rebirth. Do I need any other titles beyond bat family & JL to have a clue? I get a bit of superman, though he's way down my list (too vanilla) and I've never been hugely tempted by Flash either.

I'm behind on JLA and Superman and haven't had any problems (beyond massive spoilers for Superman). They seem to have done a really good job of explaining everything

Have you tried the new bubblegum batgirl stuff? I tried a tester and hated it.

I haven't got that far yet, I've been catching up on Batwoman first. I heard good things about it, but skimming Wikipedia makes it sound awful

I'll try the first book (probably), see how it goes

How did they even do away with the FF? I was never a huge fan of them if I'm honest.

Yeah if they get the rights they'll kick it off again, I wouldn't hugely object to a couple of year hiatus for X titles of it meant them returning to the marvel/Disney fold, though I'm not hugely sold on the Inhumans as of yet.

IIRC the reason behind killing off Logan/doing old man Logan was another rights battle?

FF disappeared at the end of Secret Wars - I think they're rebuilding the multiverse - they're not in the standard universe at all. Has the added bonus for Marvel of absolutely not promoting the (then) upcoming fantastic four film.

I think Fox were talking about doing Old Man Logan at some point, I just assumed that was why the comic vanished

Unless they can get a sharing deal done before the Inhumans movie starts to rumble on (2018?), I can't see X-men making it past that.

Sounds as though I need to give Owls a read again, perhaps was in the wrong frame of mind at the time. I just remember being really disappointed with the run.

Damn straight

Kidding aside, it is a different tone - I loved it because it reminded me of the Neal Adams late 70s stuff, that was where I cut my teeth on Batman.

Did you ever try Detective Comics or Dark Knight? Apart from the odd occasional-couple-of-issue crossover (Batman is the main title) they're standalone series, and probably more in the vein of pre-52.

 

[SixTwoSix]

Damn straight

Kidding aside, it is a different tone - I loved it because it reminded me of the Neal Adams late 70s stuff, that was where I cut my teeth on Batman.

Did you ever try Detective Comics or Dark Knight? Apart from the odd occasional-couple-of-issue crossover (Batman is the main title) they're standalone series, and probably more in the vein of pre-52.

I started reading the Detective run and liked that, unsure why I didn't continue tbh.

Gonna look our for some cheap deals on comixology and try to pick up all the Batman New 52 stuff, give it a good re-read.

 

[No1newts]

I'm behind on JLA and Superman and haven't had any problems (beyond massive spoilers for Superman). They seem to have done a really good job of explaining everything

That's cool then, I'm ticking over JL/JLA/JLD ALONGSIDE bat titles and when I'm going spare the odd Supes title so I'll just continue as is.

I haven't got that far yet, I've been catching up on Batwoman first. I heard good things about it, but skimming Wikipedia makes it sound awful

I'll try the first book (probably), see how it goes

I was more disappointed as the batgirl new 52 run was extremely well built, actually pretty gritty with a strong lead with real issues on her plate.

I feel although they have undermined a strong lead to appeal to a younger teen generation which was a real shame. Up to that point some amazing reading in her run.

FF disappeared at the end of Secret Wars - I think they're rebuilding the multiverse - they're not in the standard universe at all. Has the added bonus for Marvel of absolutely not promoting the (then) upcoming fantastic four film.

I think Fox were talking about doing Old Man Logan at some point, I just assumed that was why the comic vanished

Unless they can get a sharing deal done before the Inhumans movie starts to rumble on (2018?), I can't see X-men making it past that.

I didn't even read secret wars, I read some decent things about it but being honest I'm enjoying DC runs so much I don't particularly want to go back to marvel

Damn straight

Kidding aside, it is a different tone - I loved it because it reminded me of the Neal Adams late 70s stuff, that was where I cut my teeth on Batman.

Did you ever try Detective Comics or Dark Knight? Apart from the odd occasional-couple-of-issue crossover (Batman is the main title) they're standalone series, and probably more in the vein of pre-52.

I like, what feels, a darker approach in new 52 but which is also happy to spend time in the emotional sphere which you don't always see in comics.

Detective comics are great though I really didn't like Gothtopia. I actually never tried dark knight either

 

[shorttricky]

Is Rebirth better than the New 52 stuff...especially where Batman is concerned?

With the caveat that's there's only been 2 issues of each so far...

Batman 1 & 2 have been really good - there are 2 supers that have started to work in Gotham and Bats is keeping a close eye on them

Detective Comics 1 & 2 were magnificent. Now to be fair, War Games is one of my all time favourite Batman runs, and it's because of how Bruce uses the Bat family - this totally reminds me of that. With Batwoman in a prominent role and a surprise villain switching sides, this is already the book I'm champing at the bit waiting for the next one.

Green Arrow, Titans and Flash were OK, but I wasn't overly excited. I didn't read them in New 52, so I don't know if there's been any big changes to make them exciting - they felt pretty by the numbers.

Aquaman...not sure. It had interesting moments but didn't really stand out too much. I'll give it a few more issues.

Superman 1 & 2 - real surprise this, but they were excellent. I've always found Supes a bit dull, but they've thrown in a really clever twist. It does spoiler the New 52 run, so I'd suggest reading that first. Haven't read Action Comics yet, but definitely will.

Green Lanterns 1 & 2 - I'm a big Lantern fan (although not up to date), but I wasn't sold on this immediately. I like Simon Baz, but don't know anything about Jessica Cruz - their relationship felt forced (and teetered on the verge of buddy cop type action film). Totally pulled it back with Atrocitus and the red lanterns.

All in all, colour me impressed. Looking forward to the rest of the bat titles especially, and I need me some more Detective Comics!

 

[maj]

Wow this thread hasn't been posted in for awhile. What's everyone reading at the moment? I've recently got into reading comics a lot more than I did a few years back and now read on my lunch break at work too. Finished Y The Last Man today which I thought overall was good and can see why it was really recommended in this thread. Think I'll read The Boys next based on the good things I've heard about it. Any others I should add to list? I'm trying to stay away from Marvel & DC for now. Prefer to stick to TV & film for those.

 

[shorttricky]

I'm assuming by stay away from DC & Marvel you mean no superheroes?

Pretty much anything by Vertigo is worth a look - Sandman, Preacher, Fables, 100 Bullets, Transmetropolitan and Scalped are all highlights

If you like the first book of Boys, I'd consider Marshall Law (much crazier), Authority (definitely not your normal superhero team, Midnighter is a great character) and Black Summer (by Warren Ellis)

If you fancy a horror book, Harrow County is worth a look

Image is doing some great comics at them minute - Saga, A.D. After Death, Morning Glories, Lazarus are all worth your time, but they have a ton of good looking stuff I haven't even got round to yet

I've just finished DC Bombshells v1 - working through Midnighter now, with Locke and Key ready to go after that

 

[Uncle Petey]

Finished The Boys the other day and I'm sad that it's over It had me hooked from the first frame. Butcher is a character and a half
Started 100 Bullets, but I'm not feeling it yet and will probably re-read a bunch of Dredd/2000AD stuff in the meantime.

 

[Drunzer]

Wow this thread hasn't been posted in for awhile. What's everyone reading at the moment?

Far too much.

After Death
Thanos
Venom
Nova
Old Man Logan
All-Star Batman
Batman
Detective Comics
Superman
Action Comics
The Flash
Justice League
Deathstroke

That list will be downsizing soon thankfully. I'm dropping Justice League once the current arc has ended, just haven't found any of the stories interesting. Jeff Lemire's Marvel contract is up so he's ending Thanos and jumping off OML, the final book for AD is out in April. Rebirth has been a gift and a curse, I think it was a fantastic relaunch for DC but it also means I have so much to read as I'm enjoying all the runs. The only one I'm not sure about is Deathstroke, I find Priest's writing a bit confusing. Might find it easier to digest if I read it in trades.

 

[maj]

I'm assuming by stay away from DC & Marvel you mean no superheroes?

Pretty much anything by Vertigo is worth a look - Sandman, Preacher, Fables, 100 Bullets, Transmetropolitan and Scalped are all highlights

If you like the first book of Boys, I'd consider Marshall Law (much crazier), Authority (definitely not your normal superhero team, Midnighter is a great character) and Black Summer (by Warren Ellis)

If you fancy a horror book, Harrow County is worth a look

Image is doing some great comics at them minute - Saga, A.D. After Death, Morning Glories, Lazarus are all worth your time, but they have a ton of good looking stuff I haven't even got round to yet

I've just finished DC Bombshells v1 - working through Midnighter now, with Locke and Key ready to go after that

Pretty much yeah. I'm after more obscure ones rather than your typical Batman and Spiderman etc. Before this thread I'd never heard or of given the likes of Y The Last Man a read. So comics like that are what I'm after so thanks for your recommendations. I'll check them out and see which ones interest me the most.

 

[Shamikebab]

Image, so many good Image comics. Check out Sex Criminals (don't be put off by the name), Thief of Thieves, The Wicked and The Divine, Rat Queens, East of West

 

[shorttricky]

Image, so many good Image comics. Check out Sex Criminals (don't be put off by the name), Thief of Thieves, The Wicked and The Divine, Rat Queens, East of West

Sex Criminals and The Wicked and The Divine are both on my wishlist, I'll have to check the others out

 

[No1newts]

Really bloody irritated with DC's publishing strategy. My OCD is partly to blame that I want everything in paperwback as opposed to hardback format to finish my new 52 collection before moving on to Rebirth but I find it insane that every 1st collected edition of Rebirth is out in paperback already but action comics 9 isn't published until 20th June and Batman 10 isn't out until may that isn't touching on the collected editions for the likes of End Days and Savage Days for superman which aren't until blinking August.

Baffled how they managed to do this.

 

[shorttricky]

Really bloody irritated with DC's publishing strategy. My OCD is partly to blame that I want everything in paperwback as opposed to hardback format to finish my new 52 collection before moving on to Rebirth but I find it insane that every 1st collected edition of Rebirth is out in paperback already but action comics 9 isn't published until 20th June and Batman 10 isn't out until may that isn't touching on the collected editions for the likes of End Days and Savage Days for superman which aren't until blinking August.

Baffled how they managed to do this.

You should collect the hardbacks like a real comic book fan

DC appear to have skipped hardbacks for Rebirth (deluxe editions coming later), so the paperback is out when the hardback would have been on New52 schedules.

DC have also accelerated the schedules by having a lot of fortnightly titles, so it's much more apparent with books like Batman and Action Comics which are already up to book 2. Imagine how far behind you'll be by August