The Cryptolambo had gone to the moon... Time for Cryptolambo 2!!!
- Thread starter kindai
- Start date
ACAB, without any facts or evidence I'm siding with the public over any cop, the police have too much motive to lie and too much of a history of it.
Innocent until proven guilty.
So I got an email off the police officer tonight stating that he would not discuss my "inconsiderate driving".
Accordingly I have put in a complaint and escalation to the duty inspector/chief inspector as the objective tests for issuing a S59 have failed.
Examples are provided by the CPS (https://www.cps.gov.uk/crime-info/driving-offences) include:
- overtaking on the inside;
- driving too close to another vehicle;
- driving through a red light by mistake;
- turning into the path of another vehicle;
- the driver being avoidably distracted by tuning the radio, lighting a cigarette etc.
- flashing lights to force other drivers to give way;
- misusing lanes to gain advantage over other drivers;
- unnecessarily staying in an overtaking lane;
- unnecessarily slow driving or braking;
- dazzling other drivers with un-dipped headlights.
In other words, and according to Section 3ZA a reasonable test would be as follows: "A person is to be regarded as driving without reasonable consideration for other persons only if those persons are inconvenienced by his driving".
Which, no other person was inconvenienced, as the area was otherwise devoid of people
AND
is causing, or is likely to cause, alarm, distress or annoyance to members of the public.
To which, as the area was devoid of people, and was a short (2 second) blip of the throttle would fail to alarm distress or annoy anyone, with the officer also stating he would have been happy for me to rev the engine while stationary, so any noise-concerns are likewise gone.
Soldato
I wish you the very best of luck but every tale on these lines I’ve heard from anyone or ever read online is the same - absolutely nothing will happen to undo what has been done.
I imagine nothing will, but who knows.
Soldato
No point in cutting off your nose to spite your face - how on earth did you think giving them a the attitude would end well?
Lets just be clear, I was not disrespectful, but I was not chatty to them.
Its a lesson everyone should know. If you are under caution either STFU or make sure your statements are ironclad/accurate.
Soldato
Or just be chatty and friendly to them. :shrug:
What do you mean you were 'under caution'? Interested as I only know that to be once you've had rights read to you/you're under arrest?
As soon as I got out the car they gave me the "You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention when questioned something which you later rely on in court. Anything you do say may be given in evidence."
that's a real mood killer
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Soldato
Saying anything at all when under caution without legal representation is extremely risky, IMO. I'm not entirely sure that cautioning someone at the roadside is entirely proper either, unless you are under arrest which it doesn't sound like was the case here. Being interviewed under caution confers on you some legal rights which are clearly unable to be honoured at the roadside. That said, they clearly had reason to go in hard from the outset. Getting out of the car almost certainly did not help the situation unless they asked you to get out. I learned that at 17 - got straight out the car when pulled over thinking it was the right thing to do and was IMMEDIATELY grabbed (hard!) and arrested.
It sounds to me like they wanted to scare the hell out of kindai, shake him up a bit and see what fell out. People say all sorts of things and (under caution) all of that is admissible should they want to really take their pound of flesh. Underhanded perhaps but still...
It sounds to me like they wanted to scare the hell out of kindai, shake him up a bit and see what fell out. People say all sorts of things and (under caution) all of that is admissible should they want to really take their pound of flesh. Underhanded perhaps but still...
Soldato
I got a S.59 years ago in similar circumstances, although I was in a Volvo 850 so I'm not sure it was jealousy in that instance. I was very polite and apologetic even though I hadn't really done much wrong but it didn't seem to make any difference.
I'd be very surprised if you get it overturned as when I researched it I found that there's pretty much nothing you can do: the officer can just say whatever they want and it's considered to be true.
I decided to just get on with my life as it wasn't something I had to pay or declare to insurance and I thought it unlikely that I'd get another one.
I'd be very surprised if you get it overturned as when I researched it I found that there's pretty much nothing you can do: the officer can just say whatever they want and it's considered to be true.
I decided to just get on with my life as it wasn't something I had to pay or declare to insurance and I thought it unlikely that I'd get another one.
Soldato
Saying nothing is about the best thing you can do unless/until you have legal representation. A layperson will make mistakes, contradict themselves, misspeak etc all of which can get you into trouble when otherwise there might be none. You are within your rights to say nothing and the "may harm your defence" bit is really referring to what might happen in court if it ever gets that far. I'm not a lawyer and this is just my opinion but I certainly won't be interviewed under caution without representation - ever.
They asked me to.
Yup, they got nothing from me, after giving me the caution the first question was "can you explain why you drove like that" or words to that effect. Extremely vague and leaving the door open to shoot myself in the foot, even a "like what" statement could potentially be seen as driving without due care and attention.
I took a moment to think back about where id just driven, and how, so gave him "No comment" as nothing id done was wrong, I know he hadnt been following me until he caught up at some traffic lights.
Thats when the fishing expedition came, implied threats of various offenses and then when they know they have nothing to stand on, due to my tight lipped nature, they "settled on" the S59 warning for inconsiderate driving.
If nothing comes from my complaint, I might apply for permission for a Judicial Review, the application is cheap and apparently if granted, simply being given the permission is enough for most forces to overturn it.
May harm your defence is if you say nothing even at court, the right to remain silent is absolute and saying nothing, is not, and can not, by law, be seen as an admission of guilt.
To be fair we are currently only hearing one side of the story. How many times has a poster come on hear pleading innocence and the truth later turns out to be completely different?
For all we know he could have been doing donuts round an empty supermarket carpark and he's just not telling us.
For all we know he could have been doing donuts round an empty supermarket carpark and he's just not telling us.
Caporegime
Given the OP has met multiple people on this forum and doesn't come across as a muppet in real life (as i understand), i doubt it.