Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (June Poll)

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

  • Remain a member of the European Union

    Votes: 794 45.1%

  • Leave the European Union

    Votes: 965 54.9%
  • Total voters
    1,759
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Mr Jack said:
Yes. And it's exactly the argument I've been making in the last few threads: what happens after Brexit is completely uncertain and the people who want to Leave are very likely - with the possible exception of Boris - not to be the people who get to decide what happens next.
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Exactly. And my point is, the remain side can't stand all smug saying they have no plan. They know the reason why, the government didn't stay Impartial and let the public make a fully informed choice. The only way to find the plan out is to give the government the agenda to write a plan and many wouldn't want to take that chance. On this topic, It seems leave prefer the most restrictive option for eu nationals that we would realistically see.
 
Trifid said:
Exactly. And my point is, the remain side can't stand all smug saying they have no plan. They know the reason why, the government didn't stay Impartial and let the public make a fully informed choice. The only way to find the plan out is to give the government the agenda to write a plan and many wouldn't want to take that chance.
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The reason for their not being a plan doesn't make any material difference to the impact of the lack of one. Leave is a leap in the dark; no-one can say what will happen, or even what the UK will try to achieve.
 
dalehitchy1 said:
But Norway and Switzerland still want to be a part of it in some way.
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Do they, or were they just not in a strong enough position to reject the holy cow of free-movement in exchange for access to EU markets? They signed what they did because it was the best compromise for them, not because it's what they wanted.

That still doesn't detract from the point either Norway or Switzerland could become fully fledged EU members anytime they want to and yet their people don't want to.

dalehitchy1 said:
And that conflicts with why Brexiters want to leave.
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Sweeping statement much?

dalehitchy1 said:
I reckon a large percentage of the brexiters don't even know what these countries have signed up to and yet they are used as a beacon of hope as to what we could be.
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Well given you 'reckon' it, it must be true :rolleyes:

dalehitchy1 said:
Can you, or any of the brexiters honestly say that you would be happy to leave the EU and become part of the EEA?

Tell me honestly. I very much doubt it, and I can understand that. But then the argument for being like them shouldnt be used.
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Yes, because we'd still have more control over national laws than we do now.

It seems to me you are in the remain Bubble where everyone that disagrees with EU membership must be a braces-wearing skin-head who just wants to see less darkies.

Even this pro-EU journalist sees the pitfalls in seeing the argument that way...

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2016/may/31/brexiters-eu-leavers-remain


dalehitchy1 said:
I can see us ending up joining this if a leave vote is won. And you lot would have been conned.
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Maybe we will but that will be the choice of the democratically elected government of the UK, and a decision that can be changed or re-considered every 5 years.

At least we'd have a choice, and an ongoing one. If we stay we'll be giving the green light to further integration and more watering down of local border controls laws.

I don't think you realise that a 'Yes' vote won't be seen as 'we like the status quo' by the EU but 'we're like where you're heading, carry on changing the rules'.
 
estebanrey said:
As a Brexiter I am just as annoyed by Remainians using Norway and Switzerland as examples of countries that have bad deal (They have to abide by EU rules by can't influence them blah blah blah), yet when you ask why those two aren't signing up to join then you just get silence.
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Reason you don't get an answer is because it's a bit of silly question. If I was Norwegian, or Swiss, I'd be in that part of the population that would vote to join the EU as a full member. It's no more sensible to expect me to explain why the population vote otherwise than it is to expect me to defend the Leave position or explain why 36% of the population voted Tory at the last general election.
 
one factor is simply people often being risk averse, staying with the status quo - mentioned in the video posted above
 
RaohNS said:
We shall see. They may not get official entry but Visa free travel is effectively entrance to a lot of people who have shall we say a very backward view compared to the Western values.
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Was it you who made a comment about walking through Turkey with your girlfriend in the last thread and was slapped down by someone who has actually been to Turkey?

Perhaps they said no because they were firstly lied to, then told how many they MUST take and all the while Merkel in her own self hatred for her own country says to the entire middle east they can come.
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I'm not much of a fan of Merkel but she was completely right on refugees, it's an utter disgrace that the rich west - after helping create a crisis in the Middle East - sits and whines about taking a paltry number of refugees while far poorer countries in the area deal with far greater numbers.

Greek debt has had an impact on the Eurozone economy and thus on us.
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And it'll have an impact if we leave as well; our economy won't magically decouple from that of our nearest neighbours on June 24th. So, I ask again, what difference does it make to whether we choose to leave the EU?

Spain are still struggling. The forecasts you mention may be all well and good on the stats point.
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I didn't link forecasts, I linked the actual figures from the past few years. Spain has shown strong growth for the past two years and its debt-to-GDP has stabilised. Why should we expect a new crisis on this front?
 
Mr Jack said:
And it'll have an impact if we leave as well; our economy won't magically decouple from that of our nearest neighbours on June 24th. So, I ask again, what difference does it make to whether we choose to leave the EU?
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Nothing is black and white. Of course another Greek bailout would affect us. But to what degree? Having an invoice from the EU for it AND feeling it in the economy/stock market is different than ONLY dealing with it in the economy/stock market.
 
estebanrey said:
Do they, or were they just not in a strong enough position to reject the holy cow of free-movement in exchange for access to EU markets? They signed what they did because it was the best compromise for them, not because it's what they wanted.

That still doesn't detract from the point either Norway or Switzerland could become fully fledged EU members anytime they want to and yet their people don't want to.



Sweeping statement much?



Well given you 'reckon' it, it must be true :rolleyes:



Yes, because we'd still have more control over national laws than we do now.

It seems to me you are in the remain Bubble where everyone that disagrees with EU membership must be a braces-wearing skin-head who just wants to see less darkies.

Even this pro-EU journalist sees the pitfalls in seeing the argument that way...

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/commentisfree/2016/may/31/brexiters-eu-leavers-remain




Maybe we will but that will be the choice of the democratically elected government of the UK, and a decision that can be changed or re-considered every 5 years.

At least we'd have a choice, and an ongoing one. If we stay we'll be giving the green light to further integration and more watering down of local border controls laws.

I don't think you realise that a 'Yes' vote won't be seen as 'we like the status quo' by the EU but 'we're like where you're heading, carry on changing the rules'.
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Call it a sweeping statement if you must. But a large percentage of the leave sides main argument to leave is immigration and wanting to control our borders. Was a poll not taken recently with the brexit side winning due to their focus on immigration.

So, with a large amount of people voting to leave due to large immigration numbers, i ask again, what is the point in using switzerland, norway as a good example when they are subject to free movement.

Lastly, I am far away from being in a bubble. If you want to leave, then leave properly. There is no point in leaving, but then joining back up again to the things that made you leave in the first place. Thats like saying, "im leaving this club due to loosing sovereignty and immigration issues brought with it, so I am going to join that club over there where i will loose my sovereignty and where there will be the same immigration issues.

I would rather leave fully if a vote to leave came about.
 
Trifid said:
Feel free to find my posts on it. There was a nice table and even Fox conceded my point on it. However all I was saying was that on many levels it would suit the country as a whole better then full EU membership.
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Oh I'm not saying there's anything wrong with your opinion and fair play to you for doing your own research. It was just a joke as what we hear the most is that immigration from EU countries is bad and should be stopped.
 
sityeuropa said:
Nothing is black and white. Of course another Greek bailout would affect us. But to what degree? Having an invoice from the EU for it AND feeling it in the economy/stock market is different than ONLY dealing with it in the economy/stock market.
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We're not not going to be handed any invoice for a Greek bailout. And, of course, the damage to the UK, and EU, economies caused by a Leave vote would also mean that any economic damage from a further Greece-related downturn would also hit harder so it cuts both ways.
 
Mr Jack said:
We're not not going to be handed any invoice for a Greek bailout. And, of course, the damage to the UK, and EU, economies caused by a Leave vote would also mean that any economic damage from a further Greece-related downturn would also hit harder so it cuts both ways.
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Not really as we would have 150 million extra a week ! I halved it just to be generous to you remainers.
 
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sityeuropa said:
Not really as we would have 150 million extra a week ! I halved it just to be generous to you remainers.
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The idea that we will have any more money in a Brexit scenario is nonsense. Firstly, there's the simple fact that a good chunk of the money supposedly recovered would need to be used up replacing all the things the EU currently does for us - on regulation and so forth, as well as new immigration and border controls - but, more importantly, it takes an utterly trivial amount of damage to the UK economy to outweigh the sums we use to help fund the EU and every serious forecast puts the damage to the UK economy well above those amounts.

If we leave the EU we will have less money than if we remain; both as a nation as an individuals.
 
Mr Jack said:
If we leave the EU we will have less money than if we remain; both as a nation as an individuals.
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How many more bail outs, how much more public services pressure will happen due to increased population and less border controls.

How much more money will we need to put in to fund new countries that are not self sufficient to the block.

We will benefit from trade deals with countries outside the EU. Canada / Australia.
 
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