oh dear, not only is eu run by election like thois country. they only set minimum levels in certain areas. uk government still has control on most areas and can still go above the minimum set by eu.
undemocratic is utter bs argument.
Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (June Poll)
- Thread starter Rilot
- Start date
- Status
oh dear, not only is eu run by election like thois country. they only set minimum levels in certain areas. uk government still has control on most areas and can still go above the minimum set by eu.
undemocratic is utter bs argument.
Soldato
- Joined
- 3 Jun 2005
- Posts
- 7,613
It boggles my mind that so many are against pre-selecting who is invited to live and work in our country. 
You do realise that was largely a fallout from the US market collapse, right?
A well-considered letter than I'd recommend anyone reads.
The closing paragraph is worth repeating:
Comparing costs and benefits is not as exciting as a rousing political speech, but is the right way to approach a hugely important decision. For me the balance of arguments is clear: the economic and foreign policy costs of leaving are large, and on my reading the gains in sovereignty in today’s connected world are limited. The issue is not about the older generation’s past but about our children’s and grandchildren’s future. For those reasons, I shall vote Remain.
Permabanned
- Joined
- 10 Aug 2015
- Posts
- 399
Even so, if they can predict what's going to happen when we leave, so they should have then & they couldn't then just as they cannot now. Don't make excuses.
I was firmly in the leave camp but the more I think about it the more I think a leave vote will add nothing to the UK.
We'll still have to obey EU rules to trade with them. We'll risk introduction of customs and duty charges from EU imports. Immigration will still be an issue. The supposed reduction in bureaucracy will just be filled with more bureaucracy.
I just can't see what actual provable benefit the UK will enjoy leaving the EU.
I am aware of that and this may come as a shock to you, but the elected European Parliament has no teeth whatsoever.
Permabanned
- Joined
- 10 Aug 2015
- Posts
- 399
Farage didn't go back on student fees like clegg. How can you side with clegg?
I didn't side with Clegg, just like I didn't side with Farage in this thread poll when I voted to leave.
You have to distance all of the liars, cheats and racists from the decision and do what you think is right, not vote the way of your favourite liar.
Nobody can see the future. What people can do is create models and make predictions based on those models.
"Unable to time travel" isn't a trait that disqualifies people from being able to talk about the reasoned future impacts of x or y.
The, broadly speaking, difference between the remain predictions is that they have the luxury of it being the status quo so it's fairly straightforward to be able to say that things carry on as they are. The leave camp rely often on leaps of faith.
oh yeah I forgot clegg was PM and had control of the house, to implement what he wanted. oh wait.
Clegg was one of the best MPs we've seen in this country for a long time, actually had the balls to compromise to achieve greater good for the country, and not just oppose anything and block anything suggested by the other side.
shame people seem unable to grasp the concept of a coalition.
Clegg was one of the best MPs we've seen in this country for a long time, actually had the balls to compromise to achieve greater good for the country, and not just oppose anything and block anything suggested by the other side.
shame people seem unable to grasp the concept of a coalition.
Farage didn't go back on student fees like clegg. How can you side with clegg?
Clegg was the junior partner in a coalition. It would be ridiculous to expect him to fulfil every manifesto pledge.
Soldato
- Joined
- 22 Jul 2014
- Posts
- 3,907
- Location
- Oxon
But him bending over backwards in completely the opposite direction wasn't ridiculous?
8
No we're not we could go on and join or create any union we wanted.
Your faced with a simple choice do you wish to remain a member of the European union or not.
Thats it not whatever ******** you want to dress it up as to try and make one answer sound worse than the other
No we're not we could go on and join or create any union we wanted.
Your faced with a simple choice do you wish to remain a member of the European union or not.
Thats it not whatever ******** you want to dress it up as to try and make one answer sound worse than the other
Soldato
- Joined
- 20 Feb 2004
- Posts
- 4,032
- Location
- Blyth, Northumberland
I'm in.
Suspended
- Joined
- 18 Oct 2002
- Posts
- 9,480
Well, right now we have MEPs/a say on the Council, appoint someone to the Commission, etc. Then if there's any treaty change we have a veto. Etc. If we left that wouldn't be the case.
I've answered your question, will you now answer mine?
Sure:
1. We are a nuclear superpower with the most advanced military in the EU
2. We are the financial centre for Europe
3. We are diplomatically agile and command respect around the World
4. All of the countries that trade with us now will continue to trade with us afterwards
5. I just don't buy all the doom and gloom Remain are selling
6. I am not in the Out camp either just for the record; I just struggle a little with some of the claims being made
Dave was never really after a great deal and the impression given by the EU was that he could do one.
Are any other countries wanting to leave?
Seems this whole debate could have been avoided with same fairly trivial concessions vs the (alleged) potential gloom and doom of brexit.
Thing with that is that we are all those things before the vote. Does that render them moot in a stay/leave discussion? They won't go away whether we stay or go...
Whilst trivial concessions wouldn't have appeased the Leave side of the referendum I can't help but feel that the entire deal was a huge misstep (lets face it, this entire mess has been more of a case of who can lose their voters fastest between the two sides, with misinformation and self interest ruling the day on both sides). It was supposed to show how we could negotiate a good deal and that the EU was flexible, that reform would be more than possible down the line.
The problem the EU faces with this referendum isn't so much one of losing us, but more that, with several other EU countries watching and interested in similar referendums, should ours result in a leave vote the EU project may suffer fragmentation ... and with a lack of economic parity among it's member states it could ill afford to lose some areas.
The problem the EU faces with this referendum isn't so much one of losing us, but more that, with several other EU countries watching and interested in similar referendums, should ours result in a leave vote the EU project may suffer fragmentation ... and with a lack of economic parity among it's member states it could ill afford to lose some areas.
- Status