Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (June Poll)

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

  • Remain a member of the European Union

    Votes: 794 45.1%

  • Leave the European Union

    Votes: 965 54.9%
  • Total voters
    1,759
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estebanrey said:
Yes and we've been floating between 4th-7th for the last 100 years, inside and outside of the EU, the point you are missing.

You are making the claim that we are only the 5th largest economy now because of our EU membership, but the data appears to show we are 5th regardless of our membership.

It being "a different world" is irrelevant as everyone at all times played by the rules of the day.

For your assertion that only the EU has kept us around 5th to be true, you would have to assume that pre-EU we were consistently batting above our average and that we would have fallen massively in the last 30 years to our natural position of 10th or something.
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No, I am going to agree with you actually - we weren't batting above our average - we had the ability to operate in that way and the global economy was such that we were able to maintain that position - at that time. The factors were such that they favoured our abilities and the economy of the time.

I believe the UK no longer has the necessary industries and skills to maintain that position outside of the EU based on export and import data. I'm not saying we don't have relevant industries and skills, I'm saying that what we do have is so heavily interlinked with the rest of Europe that we would be disadvantaging ourselves (and others) because of the mutual reliance that has been formed over the years. For whatever reasons - be it the UK government's decisions in years gone by regarding industry or from the EU modes of operation, I think that at present , we are maintaining our strong position because of the way we operate within the EU. That's how the world is now.

I think you are seeing the country changing from from being out and then in the EU coupled with a relatively consistent economic position and taken that to mean that regardless of what we do, we will be fine. I don't agree with that - I think a decision to drastically change our position in the global economy based on our strong position as part of the EU is a decision based on information out of context.
 
scorza said:
If you don't ask, you don't get.
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Maybe, however it's worth remember that just because you ask for something that doesn't mean you'll get it. If you ask for something which fundamentally goes against the principles of the person or group you are asking then the odds of you being successful with your request naturally diminish regardless of how strong you think your negotiating position is.
 
aardvark said:
correlation does not equal causation.

have a look at the GDP of the rest of the EU countries - the EU is suffering some of the lowest growth in the world for the last 5-10 years.
There are a number of benefits to staying in the EU but lets not pretend that the EU is doing well economically, because it really isn't and will likely be in recession very soon whether we stay or leave.
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Absolutely - such is the nature of statistical analysis.

It is very difficult to pick out trends from a relevant time period (i.e. recently) due to the impact of the recession on a lot of the EU countries - I'd suggest that maybe they haven't been able to recover as quickly as the UK has.

From the same source, a few EU countries around the top of the list

2000----Germany 3rd----France 5th----Italy 7th
2005----Germany 3rd----France 6th----Italy 7th
2011----Germany 4th----France 5th----Italy 8th
2012----Germany 4th----France 5th----Italy 9th
2013----Germany 4th----France 5th----Italy 9th
2014----Germany 4th----France 6th----Italy 8th
2015----Germany 5th----France 6th----Italy 8th

Fairly consistent - hovering around a similar position +/-1. Low growth yes, but similar to other countries (both EU and non EU) of their relative GDP (or they'd have been overtaken). I don't think you can take this to suggest that the EU is at fault since the rest of the world follows the same trend.
 
Burnsy2023 said:
Which is completely meaningless. Using your logic, there isn't a single market domestically within only the UK.
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I don't even know what "a single market domestically within only the UK" means?

Basically UK manufacturers have to comply with EU rules - they can sell their products across the single market without having to comply with any other rules. Likewise companies can import from the single market without having to worry about whether what they're importing complies with the rules they have abide by. The clue is in the phrase "single market".

For service providers, there is no single market so a UK service provider complies with UK market rules, and a French service provider complies with French market rules. Now the EU enshrines free movement of service providers, so a UK service provider could try to provide their service in France - but it would have to comply with their market rules. Hence no single market.
 
scorza said:
For service providers, there is no single market so a UK service provider complies with UK market rules, and a French service provider complies with French market rules. Now the EU enshrines free movement of service providers, so a UK service provider could try to provide their service in France - but it would have to comply with their market rules. Hence no single market.
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scorza said:
I don't even know what "a single market domestically within only the UK" means?
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The UK has three different legal systems which means that a provider will need to make allowances for the jurisdiction that they operate in. Whilst they are not the same, there is integration and harmonisation that makes it easy to trade in all areas with only minimal overheads. The same is of the EU.

Businesses are free to offer services throughout the EU without permits. Whilst the work they undertake might have slightly different regulatory impacts depending on jurisdiction, that is very much domain specific.

IT services for example absolutely operate in a single market.
 
Burnsy2023 said:
Looks to have been deleted.
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do_ron_ron said:
Shameless attempt to benefit from a tragedy. The UK does not have the same easy access to guns. A new low from Farage.
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I don't think we have enough evidence to blame anyone specific, like has been said, this could be a low level staffer, but that's no excuse.

I'd also suggest that guns aren't the only reason such an attack is less likely here; we're also culturally more tolerant towards difference in sexual orientations.
 
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