Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (June Poll)

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

  • Remain a member of the European Union

    Votes: 794 45.1%

  • Leave the European Union

    Votes: 965 54.9%
  • Total voters
    1,759
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Moses said:
That's because Labour have thus far failed to connect with their supporters/failed to get the message out that their official stance is to support remain.
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You know why that is? Because Corbyn is a secret Brexit supporter, it's plain to see. Just look at the way he voted in 1975, his quotes about the EU, the way he speaks about it at the moment. Can you imagine any other politician when being asked how important an issue they are campaigning for saying "erm, about 7 and a half out of 10". He clearly sees his primary job (now) as trying to hold the party together.

Quoted from the Spectator:

As one Vote Leave spokesman said, ‘It’s extremely sad to see that Jeremy, who is for all his faults a conviction politician and a lifelong opponent of the EU, has been gagged by the clapped-out Blairites rejected in the Labour leadership contest.’
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b0redj0rd said:
You mean the deal 'Cast Iron Cam' said we weren't involved in?
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And still aren't? This is a deal between UK government and Turkey, just happens to be at the same time as the Schengen zone. However this one is limited to "special" passports unlike the other one that is open to all Turkish people.

(I can only see the free bit of the article so not sure if there's more to it)
 
Burnsy2023 said:
It's nothing to do with respect. Greece got themselves in a pickle and had a very difficult decision to make. They got themselves so deep in debt they had to accept further austerity or look at leaving the Euro. They didn't like either of those options, but it was ultimately their choice.

That's no fault of the EU though.
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But the issue at hand was never Greece's handling of its economic affairs. You've jumped into one line questioning and gone off on a tangent.

The point being discussed is whether we could ultimately create an EU Mk2 that recognised national sovereignty more than the current one does and Scorza came back challenging anyone to show where the EU doesn't respect a countries customs, history or values.

Now I agree with your criticism of Greece and it's attitudes and may support the EU's actions but that doesn't detract from the point being made which is the EU are willing to ride rough-shot over a country if it thinks that it is good for them.
 
Actually, in some ways being less definitive about your stance but still leaning one way is sometimes a bit more relatable. A lot of people are on the edge and undecided about this vote.
 
phil675 said:
Do you need political union to share a mobile communication standard?
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No, but it's much, much better if you do. The question of how you divide up available spectra is a political question. If you're agreeing on it, you're making a joint political decision. Because we're part of the EU those decisions can be made with a vastly greater degree of transparency and accountability than they would be if we were trying to simply agree without any political structures in place. And there's much more chance that we can come to an agreement.
 
Mulder said:
You know why that is? Because Corbyn is a secret Brexit supporter, it's plain to see. Just look at the way he voted in 1975, his quotes about the EU, the way he speaks about it at the moment. Can you imagine any other politician when being asked how important an issue they are campaigning for saying "erm, about 7 and a half out of 10". He clearly sees his primary job (now) as trying to hold the party together.
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This is the current favourite Leave lie, yes. Corbyn was saying exactly what he is saying now during the leadership campaign. Did you watch The Last Leg? It's deeply, deeply dishonest of the Leave campaign to present what he said as anything other than support for the Remain position.

Corbyn's not a deep Europhile like, say, Mandelson or Farron but it's very clear that he supports Remain overall.
 
estebanrey said:
So when the Greeks voted against austerity that was respected and no laws were imposed on them. Must be reading different papers to me.
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It was Greece's own government that decided to compromise and accept austerity. The Greek people's democratic mandate stops at Greece's door, they could no more vote to force Germany to forgive their debts than we could vote to make the French stop eating cheese.

I think there's a good argument that the behaviour of the Eurozone has been utterly self-defeating and stupid during the crisis but the idea that Greece should be able to unilaterally vote to decide the policies of other countries is just bizarre.
 
Mr Jack said:
It was Greece's own government that decided to compromise and accept austerity. The Greek people's democratic mandate stops at Greece's door, they could no more vote to force Germany to forgive their debts than we could vote to make the French stop eating cheese.

I think there's a good argument that the behaviour of the Eurozone has been utterly self-defeating and stupid during the crisis but the idea that Greece should be able to unilaterally vote to decide the policies of other countries is just bizarre.
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It wasn't about people from Greece trying to vote for policies in Germany, but being prevented implementing policies in their own country that would have affected other countries.

If you think collective groups should be able to override the wishes of individual nations because it might affect them then you can't really have a problem with TTIP and the US being able to sue national governments if they compliment policies that threaten their businesses can you?
 
estebanrey said:
It wasn't about people from Greece trying to vote for policies in Germany, but being prevented implementing policies in their own country that would have affected other countries.
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They weren't prevented. Their own government chose not to because of the consequences their decisions would have.
 
Have just read both of these on the Spectator website...

The six best reasons to vote Remain

The six best reasons to vote Leave

Not sure if they've already be posted, appologies if they have.

However, the Six reasons to Remain must be the weakest reasons I've read or heard to date, if not even pathetic!

One of the Remain articles, no sooner than reason 3, brings up immigration and even race. Why, just Why?! Where as immigration isn't even mentioned in the reasons to Leave.

Edit:-

According to Matthew Parris, it's almost as if we're better off voting to Remain, so we have something to moan about/at. :p
 
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Dimi said:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ign-takes-six-point-lead-in-guardianicm-polls

What do people make of this? Scare mongering or are we really going to vote leave. I'm undecided myself.
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The polling trend toward Leave has been quite marked in the last week. That phone polls have also started showing a Leave lead is very significant, I think. The Remain camp have been sounding a bit on edge in the last week, if they show signs of full-blown panic in the next few days then we can assume their internal polling agrees with the public polls and they expect to lose.

I suspect we're seeing a common pattern for close-fought referenda, with undecided voters making up their minds in the last two weeks of the campaign. If they are, as the polls suggest, swinging more toward Leave then it's probably all over and we're on our way out of the EU.
 
I still think we'll see a fairly comfortable remain vote, purely because they'll be a significant number of people saying "leave" now but will bottle it when it comes to actual day.

Never underestimate the British's love of moaning, and when many realise that if we come out they can no longer moan about the EU or blame their issues on an outside institution it might make them change their mind.

Look at how many Lib Dems said they shouldn't have gone into coallition. They voted them into power but didn't want them to take it when it became real..because they would be responsible and swap moaning at the status quo to having to defend their choices.
 
tracertong said:
EU President: Brexit may destroy Western civilization

http://stv.tv/news/politics/1357280-eu-president-brexit-may-destroy-western-civilisation/
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The arrogance of the EU is unfathomable.
Its so important to the world that the UK leaving it may end democracy and freedoms for all 7 billion inhabitants, apparently....

I get really annoyed by the term "The single market" too. It used to be called the common market, which was a more accurate description. The use of the word "single" makes it sound like there is no alternative to their model.
 
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