Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (June Poll)

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

  • Remain a member of the European Union

    Votes: 794 45.1%
  • Leave the European Union

    Votes: 965 54.9%

  • Total voters
    1,759
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swaying more towards in now, based on workers rights. At 31, I have (or should have) many working years left in me, it worries me that as a non eu country, we could lose some of those rights.
 
Interesting you say that. UK borrowing costs (Gilt yields) have tumbled over the past few days given a Brexit is looking far more likely, and are pretty much at record lows. So actually the UK is saving money as we speak because of the increased liklihood of Brexit. They should spend all that deporting Cameron, although I'd feel sorry for wherever he ended up.



Wouldn't that be EXporting ?


Dunno if you would find a market for him though
 
You seem to believe that they would leave and/or not come the UK to work due to emotive drivers as pragmatically we pay extremely well in comparison to most parts of the EU and unless we bring in draconian checks the additional paperwork will be worth the effort of those seeking work. If there were any added.

If it is not an emotive and you few it as a pragmatic I don't think you're taking into account simple supply and demand factors on markets or the size of our economy in comparison to the rest of the EU.

I don't view it as emotive, except in so far as Britain will be viewed as less welcoming to other EU citizens if it votes to leave the community. And it would be viewed as such and if your implication is that people do not act emotively, you're greatly mistaken. But the larger part of what I said and which you skipped over are the pragmatic reasons. Right now, I as an EU citizen can apply for a job in any EU country, I can travel there without problem, I can accept a job without concern about any bureaucracy or rules stopping me or a sudden shift in government policy affecting quotas of foreign workers, etc. etc.

All of this vanishes if the UK leaves the EU. These are not non-issues. You are suggesting that they don't matter because of "supply and demand" or the size of our economy. They do. They make Britain less desirable than other similar countries for migrant workers. Even if a given migrant worker still comes here, it can be represented as an increased cost. We become a less desirable destination, ergo, we end up paying more on a national scale for migrant workers.

Furthermore, you're overlooking the fact that for the vast majority who will be voting "Leave" the issue they are deciding on is migration. Go into any workingman's pub and start a conversation about Brexit and count the seconds before you're talking about migration. You may protest that you have other reasons, but if Leave win, then it will because of migration and a desire to curb it (however mistaken they are about what leaving means). You cannot construct a reassuring argument that Britain would leave the EU and yet not make it harder for migrant workers to work here.

I mean, we could draw from other places - Africa, Pakistan and similar, but for European workers like Polish, Romanian... A Britain that is not in the EU immediately becomes less desirable as a working destination. There are emotive reasons for that, but primarily very clear practical ones.
 
swaying more towards in now, based on workers rights. At 31, I have (or should have) many working years left in me, it worries me that as a non eu country, we could lose some of those rights.

What makes you think that if we should leave that any future government is going to overturn or throw out the current rights of workers?

Has there been any indication to this being the case upon an exit?
 
If the UK leaves the EU are the the supporters of the leave nutters willing to take on the full cost of leaving the EU. Why should I have to pay for something that I did not want. Leavers should fully pay for economic cost of leaving. You are completely bonkers to think that leaving will not have a serious impact on the UK economy.

Does that mean if we stay I can decide to withhold the tax of mine that goes towards the EU every year?
 
What makes you think that if we should leave that any future government is going to overturn or throw out the current rights of workers?

Has there been any indication to this being the case upon an exit?

Based on the policies this government is trying to push forward with, that the EU is protecting us from, I don't think that's an unfounded concern.
 
swaying more towards in now, based on workers rights. At 31, I have (or should have) many working years left in me, it worries me that as a non eu country, we could lose some of those rights.

This is a really dishonest argument by labour. Workers rights was one of the key reasons that Tony Benn opposed the european project, as he felt it would negatively effect them.

Since we've joined, the UK has gone above and beyond the EU on all key workers rights, Tory and labour governments both.

If the tories wanted to slash workers rights, they could reduce them to the EU minimum already! We have more paid holiday, and more maternity/paternity leave for instance.

See these for more information

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36434855

In short, if the UK votes to leave the EU on 23 June then the UK government would have to choose which EU laws to keep, change or get rid of. So, in theory, some rights could be lost but trade unions, the Labour Party and many Conservatives could also oppose any such move.

http://www.theguardian.com/careers/2016/may/24/what-would-leaving-eu-mean--employment-rights

In summary, any changes to UK employment law following a Brexit is highly unlikely to result in a sudden radical departure from the status quo. So many of the EU-driven directives are woven into the fabric of case law, regulations and established practices by employers, that it will be a slow process to unravel, and undesirable for employers. Much would also depend on the UK’s subsequent relationship with the EU, and this of course, will be the subject of future negotiations.
 
swaying more towards in now, based on workers rights. At 31, I have (or should have) many working years left in me, it worries me that as a non eu country, we could lose some of those rights.

Fair enough, but consider what would happen if the EU decided to follow the French and dictate that we must have employment laws which actually harm our economy. Say for example if they made it as difficult to sack employees as it is in France and it resulted in mass unemployment in the UK (as it has in France). If our government passes an unpopular law, or a law that clearly doesn't work, then they generally will change their mind eventually (poll tax, cuts to child tax credit etc). I'm a lot less confident about the EU ever changing their mind about something.
 
Also

Now looking at the £/€ rate longer term and we see that back in early 2012 we were trading at around 1.14€ steadily increasing to around 1.40€

We are trading actually 20-25% higher now than we did just 3 years ago (before a BREXIT discussion).

So more scare from the inners. what is happening is quite normal
 
Fair enough, but consider what would happen if the EU decided to follow the French and dictate that we must have employment laws which actually harm our economy. Say for example if they made it as difficult to sack employees as it is in France and it resulted in mass unemployment in the UK (as it has in France). If our government passes an unpopular law, or a law that clearly doesn't work, then they generally will change their mind eventually (poll tax, cuts to child tax credit etc). I'm a lot less confident about the EU ever changing their mind about something.

Yawn, "the EU?" We are the EU, there is no "they". And should something like that happen and there was no agreement to change it, the UK could leave then. Why leave now on the off chance something bad might happen in the future?
 
Also

Now looking at the £/€ rate longer term and we see that back in early 2012 we were trading at around 1.14€ steadily increasing to around 1.40€

We are trading actually 20-25% higher now than we did just 3 years ago (before a BREXIT discussion).

So more scare from the inners. what is happening is quite normal

And it was 1.5 when first introduced.
 
swaying more towards in now, based on workers rights. At 31, I have (or should have) many working years left in me, it worries me that as a non eu country, we could lose some of those rights.

I could see a Tory Govt post Brexit saying that certain rights now enjoyed will have to be lost to make us more competitive in the world. I think ordinary people should be worried on that score.
 
What makes you think that if we should leave that any future government is going to overturn or throw out the current rights of workers?

Has there been any indication to this being the case upon an exit?

Yes. Priti Patel (Minister of State for Employment and member of the Leave campaign) said the following during a speech to the Institute of Directors:

"If we could just halve the burdens of the EU social and employment legislation we could deliver a £4.3 billion boost to our economy and 60,000 new jobs."
 
What makes you think that if we should leave that any future government is going to overturn or throw out the current rights of workers?

Has there been any indication to this being the case upon an exit?

Well our current government desperately wants out of the Human Rights act which is not a good sign. Both Cameron and Blair's government seem to have taken the US as a model in all things (they've certainly had a good go at demolishing socialized healthcare in this country and the Tory party were plenty keen on TTIP). I think there's very good reason to think that workers rights are more likely to remain strong when we share a legal basis with France and Germany than on our own. Remember that we are the country that demanded special exceptions for us in the Working Time Directive and similar matters.

So yes, if you care about workers rights, vote In. Much safer that way.
 
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