Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (June Poll)

[do_ron_ron]

Yes. Priti Patel (Minister of State for Employment and member of the Leave campaign) said the following during a speech to the Institute of Directors:

"If we could just halve the burdens of the EU social and employment legislation we could deliver a £4.3 billion boost to our economy and 60,000 new jobs."

Which means get rid of worker protections and benefits.

 

[rawuk]

...snip...

No disagreement with that well constructed reply at all!

To the basic pragmatic argument however...

In your own description lets both agree that initially EU construction workers do drop out and we have a shortage. I do not dispute this potentially may drive prices up (although you could argue huge unemployment across the EU would people risk jobs to go find them elsewhere if they weren't threatened here?). Surely a simple supply and demand scenario like the following occurs:

1. Less workers - Price increases
2. Gov recognises shortage
3. Skilled construction workers invited to UK
4. Due to increased price we are more competitive that EU states
5. Prices normalize
6. Cycle repeats (like any usual market)

Very basic interpretation. Again I am not disputing that in the short term prices may increase but as I have stated I take a medium to long view.

Not even going to discuss workers rights as you're clearly so disenfranchised with our political system you don't for a second believe we could vote someone in to keep them at EU standards if not higher.

 

[awaybreaktoday]

Just a quick question:

How many of you here opt out of teh 40hr a week Working Time Directive and how many of you choose not to?

I know that the last company I worked for would love to see the Working Time Directive disappear and i could see them putting the working week up to over 45 hrs.

 

[rawuk]

Just a quick question:

How many of you here opt out of teh 40hr a week Working Time Directive and how many of you choose not to?

I know that the last company I worked for would love to see the Working Time Directive disappear and i could see them putting the working week up to over 45 hrs.

My sibling actually works in a science research park in Scotland where he had to sign these rights away.

Jokingly it was explained that bacteria don't grow based on a 40 hour work week to suit us. Sometimes you have to work 7 day weeks for the project sometimes you don't.

It's a matter of demand and expectation. I'm sure you'd find that many London workers work far longer hours than the 40 without signing it away. Especially commission based roles.

 

[Judgeneo]

Just a quick question:

How many of you here opt out of teh 40hr a week Working Time Directive and how many of you choose not to?

I know that the last company I worked for would love to see the Working Time Directive disappear and i could see them putting the working week up to over 45 hrs.

I opted out in my last two jobs, and worked 50+ hours + travel. I start my new job soon, and won't be opting out. They are different roles completely, there should be no need for me to be working long hours in the new job.

I think having the opt out is a good thing personally.

 

[joeyjojo]

We could possibly be better off in an eu certainly not the one we're in at the moment though.

What about the link I shared though? The EU has actually made some banking reforms that put our spineless FCA to shame. See the quote in my post for one example.

 

[thep02]

Good speech by Jacob Rees Mogg

https://youtu.be/2Gu7-Dl93fM

 

[Darujhistan]

People can go back and forth about the economy - truth is no-one really knows.

But, on immigration, federalisation, and democracy, there's no argument.

1. Can't control EU immigration.

2. We're part of a federalist project, and I can't think of anyone who wants to be part of a single EU state.

3. Our democracy is disappearing.

 

[twist3d0n3]

 

[awaybreaktoday]

People can go back and forth about the economy - truth is no-one really knows.

But, on immigration, federalisation, and democracy, there's no argument.

1. Can't control EU immigration.

2. We're part of a federalist project, and I can't think of anyone who wants to be part of a single EU state.

3. Our democracy is disappearing.

We don't even do a good job of controlling non EU and illegal immigration. When the labour government introduced a point base system for non eu immigration it actually increased non eu immigration, also the tory MPs opposed to staying in the EU and arguing for a point styled policy for eu immigration where actually against one labour introduced saying it would increase immigration. Also if we were to implement the Australian system here we would see immigration increase to 5.2 million on a like for like ratio.

 

[Bantu]

I have to say that democracy is the only one i feel the EU is failing on. The differences between council, commission and parliament are so obscure to most and the decision making process is extremely opaque.
Certain decisions also leave a bad taste in the mouth (specifically asking the Irish to vote again on the lisbon treaty claiming the question wasn't clear enough...)

The other 2 depend on your point of view and whether you think open door immigration is a bad thing and if a "united european project" is something work fighting for. Both are extremely subjective.

 

[bam0]

2. We're part of a federalist project, and I can't think of anyone who wants to be part of a single EU state.

I do, or rather a federation of states, like the US. You know, how each state can make its own laws, set its own taxes etc but there is still the federal government.

 

[bam0]

I have to say that democracy is the only one i feel the EU is failing on. The differences between council, commission and parliament are so obscure to most and the decision making process is extremely opaque.
Certain decisions also leave a bad taste in the mouth (specifically asking the Irish to vote again on the lisbon treaty claiming the question wasn't clear enough...)

The other 2 depend on your point of view and whether you think open door immigration is a bad thing and if a "united european project" is something work fighting for. Both are extremely subjective.

If you look at the structure of the EU, how the council, commission and parliament all work, it's not as anti-democratic as a lot of people are making out. I also don't think it's obscure or opaque, you just don't see any coverage of it in the UK media so why would you know about it?
On the Irish issue, the EU didn't make them vote again, they were voting on a constitutional amendment that would allow the government to ratify the lisbon treaty, they changed a substantial amount of that amendment before the second referendum.

 

[Darujhistan]

I do, or rather a federation of states, like the US. You know, how each state can make its own laws, set its own taxes etc but there is still the federal government.

That's not the EU though.

 

[Skunkworks]

If the UK leaves the EU are the the supporters of the leave nutters willing to take on the full cost of leaving the EU. Why should I have to pay for something that I did not want. Leavers should fully pay for economic cost of leaving. You are completely bonkers to think that leaving will not have a serious impact on the UK economy.

Maybe - if all the 180,000 EU immigrants can be registered at your GP's surgery every year.

Boom!

 

[rawuk]

If you look at the structure of the EU, how the council, commission and parliament all work, it's not as anti-democratic as a lot of people are making out. I also don't think it's obscure or opaque, you just don't see any coverage of it in the UK media so why would you know about it?
On the Irish issue, the EU didn't make them vote again, they were voting on a constitutional amendment that would allow the government to ratify the lisbon treaty, they changed a substantial amount of that amendment before the second referendum.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't legislation created by the EU Commission, who are all un-elected and arguably open to being lobbied, where the EU Parliament reviews said legislation but is unable to modify it?

So our Lords and Parliament in reverse?

 

[Darujhistan]

We don't even do a good job of controlling non EU and illegal immigration. When the labour government introduced a point base system for non eu immigration it actually increased non eu immigration, also the tory MPs opposed to staying in the EU and arguing for a point styled policy for eu immigration where actually against one labour introduced saying it would increase immigration. Also if we were to implement the Australian system here we would see immigration increase to 5.2 million on a like for like ratio.

1. Depends on what the system is, we don't have to adopt a like for like system.

2. 5.2m? over what period of time?


No Govt is going to set up a system where we get 5.2M non EU migrats a year.

 

[Nate--IRL--]

On the Irish issue, the EU didn't make them vote again, they were voting on a constitutional amendment that would allow the government to ratify the lisbon treaty, they changed a substantial amount of that amendment before the second referendum.

Wow, first time I've seen somebody get that correct in this thread.

Nate

 

[Darujhistan]

Originally Posted by scorza View Post
Maybe - if all the 180,000 EU immigrants can be registered at your GP's surgery every year.


I got quoted 18 days the last time I tried to get a GP appointment...

 

[Bantu]

On the Irish issue, the EU didn't make them vote again, they were voting on a constitutional amendment that would allow the government to ratify the lisbon treaty, they changed a substantial amount of that amendment before the second referendum.

Fair enough and maybe it's a biased media that has led me to believe otherwise. I almost don't think it matters... the majority of the population gets its news via "traditional" media houses. The EU as a whole has never done a good enough job to advertise itself through these and convince the outlets to cover them in sufficient depth. It is failing to give the people enough information.

These are just my opinions as someone who is still firmly on the fence in this vote.