Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (June Poll)

[Tunney]

Labour being against Leave is funny to me, they have no clue who their members are which is probably why they can't win any elections.

Corbyn won the leadership contest by a landslide with the membership and he's come out in favour of Remain.

I don't think understanding your members is key to winning elections. In fact, Labour has done best in the last 40 years when it's ignored its membership.

 

[Mr Jack]

Labour being against Leave is funny to me, they have no clue who their members are which is probably why they can't win any elections.

Labour members are heavily pro-Remain; Labour voters are more split but still favour Remain by a solid margin.

 

[scorza]

What if prices were being driven down because of competition for jobs by native British people? Is that OK?

That's how market forces work, and if there's little competition for jobs then wages go up.

Corbyn won the leadership contest by a landslide with the membership and he's come out in favour of Remain.

I don't think understanding your members is key to winning elections. In fact, Labour has done best in the last 40 years when it's ignored its membership.

Yeah but his leadership campaign benefited from an influx of £3 memberships introduced by Ed Milliband, which attracted a load of politically active, young left-wingers. They don't have much in common with traditional Labour members from the working-men's clubs in the Midlands and the North. You're right though - he does have a lot of support from the current Labour membership. What he doesn't have, is much in the way of support from core Labour supporters, who may not necessarily be members but always voted Labour.

 

[StriderX]

Corbyn won the leadership contest by a landslide with the membership and he's come out in favour of Remain.

I don't think understanding your members is key to winning elections. In fact, Labour has done best in the last 40 years when it's ignored its membership.

Corbyn was a staunch anti-EU kinda guy, so the fact that hes turned around and boringly been forced into a party line to protect himself is hilarious.

 

[Tunney]

Corbyn was a staunch anti-EU kinda guy, so the fact that hes turned around and boringly been forced into a party line to protect himself is hilarious.

How does the leader of a party get forced into doing anything?

He voted for Britain to leave in 1975 and he's certainly criticised the EU when they've got things wrong. That doesn't necessarily mean that he thinks that leaving the EU is the correct course of action now.

 

[Six6siX]

That's how market forces work, and if there's little competition for jobs then wages go up.

And what would be the solution if that happened in the cases mentioned in the Guardian article?

I'd also suggest that downward trends in wages are in very few industries - and even then, more isolated incidents as per the example when the entire UK is considered. And in the sectors which are seeing these down turns, the end result is that things get cheaper for the consumer.

 

[StriderX]

How does the leader of a party get forced into doing anything?

He voted for Britain to leave in 1975 and he's certainly criticised the EU when they've got things wrong. That doesn't necessarily mean that he thinks that leaving the EU is the correct course of action now.

A leader will do anything to stay leader, unfortunately for Corbyn, he is an innately weak person simply from Ideology.

So ultimately he is doing soft politics to stay in his position, eventually the Blairites will butcher him.

 

[Skunkworks]

Corbyn is a sell-out and he knows it.

 

[Rannoch]

Corbyn is a sell-out and he knows it.

He sure is, no balls.

 

[v0n]

The Guardian Money Editor has said he's supporting Brexit for the same reasons: https://www.theguardian.com/money/blog/2016/jun/18/eu-vote-brexit-working-people-rents-wages

Voting "out" because some low skilled sector finally has enough competition not to dictate 1990ies prices is just one of those insane excuses that look good as a catchphrase on top of page in a right wing rag or when shouted by an angry manipulator in front of the mob. But it's still insane. The man is talking about throwing away and revising 40+ years of trade agreements and legislations, cancelling protection on decades of licensing and products, wrecking long term investments, involuntarily breaking contracts and destabilising micro and macro economy for millions of people and effectively forcing everyone to rebuild framework and re-start most agreements, paperwork and contracts from scratch. And all that because painters or bus drivers didn't get pay rise?

I'm sorry but these are stupid excuses. Voting "out" because paranoia of what EU might (or may not) become is stupid. Voting "out" because of blind hope that it will lead right wing forces to power and Boris or Nigel will stop globalisation and revert Britain to some sort of small town 1950ies paradise is stupid. It's stupid because it's so desperate, selfish, so emo, tantrum like - it's like burning your entire flat and leaving the building to live on the street just because you can't agree with your neighbours one morning. "I don't like how Romanians come here and earn peanuts driving buses, I don't want to be in Europe any more". Talk about drama.

It's one thing to believe that EU has too much bureaucracy and is in dire need of reform, but it's quite another to not even recognise just what a historic milestone and money and time saving device it is in terms of trade and everyday life. And to throw it all away, just because you don't like some stupid, tiny aspect of it, or because you go David Icke on some "don't trust faceless reptilian bureaucrat from Brussels" drunken conspiracy spiel. Or worse yet, because you strongly believe some nations or races are better than others, and so you would like to participate in some sort of fantasy selective globalisation - yes to Aussies but Bulgarians or Romanians - don't let them in, cause they're like, not as nice. Better yet - "if we could split and make EU 2 - you know - with the cooler countries - like Netherlands and Germany, but none of those poor looking ones - Greeks or Poles. We had about 30 pages of that kind of bizarro word parallel universe talk across EU threads recently.

 

[Mulder]

No, I just don't want to spend an hour watching a load of crap. Is the part you just linked to meant to be a summary of it/the good bit? Or did it start playing from where I stopped it last time? Because it was not illuminating, just rehashed previous bad arguments... and then also lied. Eg. just after where it started, Kate Hoey lies about how 'so many of the directives and regulations that we are forced to take have got nowhere near the European Parliament' .

I linked to the whole video, but here's a good bit about how the Norwegian people were bombarded with the same economic doomsday nonsense we're hearing before they went to vote on the EU. They stayed out and none of it came true.

Not sure where you saw that bit about Kate Hoey. She talks first about how Labour were always anti-EU (true), Corbyn being elected on a manifesto in 1983 of leaving the common market (true), she then talks about the remain camp getting some of their biggest donations from big banks (true), how the EU was responsible for ending collective workers bargaining rights in Greece (true), how the EU has imposed rulers none of the people asked for/wanted (true), she then talks about how we trade more with the rest of the world than we do with the EU (true).....

You think the Tories will be gone at the end of the Parliament? You think Corbyn's going to get Labour into power? Especially if Scotland leave? Do you think there will be a significant shift to the left in England?

You can ask a bunch of useless rhetorical questions, or you can look at the crux of the issue; in the UK we can vote out/vote in our leaders, in the EU we can't. It's as simple as that. Voting to stay in the EU because you don't like the current Government makes no sense.

The EU only serves big business, yet promotes the rights of workers, protection of the environment, looks to be stopping TTIP, etc? (I realise someone will say we had a lot of rights for workers before the EU, then another will link to the Guardian opinion peace about how the EU has been bad for the environment, then someone will go off on a tangent about TTIP whilst frothing at the mouth, but I stand by those points).

If the EU is for workers rights then why have they outlawed collecting bargaining? Why do groups like "trade unionists against the EU exist"? Even if it did protect workers rights, it's no good having rights if your economy is bankrupt and you can't get a job. The workers rights argument is a myth, just like the economic doomsday stories.

Stopping TTIP? Are you for real? The EU has been doing everything in its power for the past few years to keep the whole thing secret and away from the public eye, as per usual. The ongoing public protests and recent leaks have finally (hopefully) delivered a lethal blow, despite the EU's efforts.

 

[majestyk]

Corbyn opposed the EU tooth and nail for 30 years.

He suddenly changed tack probably to align himself with the majority of the young leftists that elected him.

Corbyn has no control over the swathes of traditional Labour supporters in the north of England that abandoned Labour for UKIP and are going to vote for Brexit.

As a side note, with Scotland firmly SNP, to win a general election, Corbyn has to overturn 100 Tory seats. And that's before any adverse boundary changes.

 

[Simon]

Voting "out" because some low skilled sector finally has enough competition not to dictate 1990ies prices is just one of those insane excuses that look good as a catchphrase on top of page in a right wing rag or when shouted by an angry manipulator in front of the mob. But it's still insane. The man is talking about throwing away and revising 40+ years of trade agreements and legislations, cancelling protection on decades of licensing and products, wrecking long term investments, involuntarily breaking contracts and destabilising micro and macro economy for millions of people and effectively forcing everyone to rebuild framework and re-start most agreements, paperwork and contracts from scratch. And all that because painters or bus drivers didn't get pay rise?

I'm sorry but these are stupid excuses. Voting "out" because paranoia of what EU might (or may not) become is stupid. Voting "out" because of blind hope that it will lead right wing forces to power and Boris or Nigel will stop globalisation and revert Britain to some sort of small town 1950ies paradise is stupid. It's stupid because it's so desperate, selfish, so emo, tantrum like - it's like burning your entire flat and leaving the building to live on the street just because you can't agree with your neighbours one morning. "I don't like how Romanians come here and earn peanuts driving buses, I don't want to be in Europe any more". Talk about drama.

It's one thing to believe that EU has too much bureaucracy and is in dire need of reform, but it's quite another to not even recognise just what a historic milestone and money and time saving device it is in terms of trade and everyday life. And to throw it all away, just because you don't like some stupid, tiny aspect of it, or because you go David Icke on some "don't trust faceless reptilian bureaucrat from Brussels" drunken conspiracy spiel. Or worse yet, because you strongly believe some nations or races are better than others, and so you would like to participate in some sort of fantasy selective globalisation - yes to Aussies but Bulgarians or Romanians - don't let them in, cause they're like, not as nice. Better yet - "if we could split and make EU 2 - you know - with the cooler countries - like Netherlands and Germany, but none of those poor looking ones - Greeks or Poles. We had about 30 pages of that kind of bizarro word parallel universe talk across EU threads recently.

Boom!

 

[PapaLazaru]

Corbyn is a sell-out and he knows it.

So is BoJo.

 

[StriderX]

So is BoJo.

Ah but as right winger/tory/shapeshifting lizard, its expected.

 

[V F]

Voting "out" because some low skilled sector finally has enough competition not to dictate 1990ies prices is just one of those insane excuses that look good as a catchphrase on top of page in a right wing rag or when shouted by an angry manipulator in front of the mob. But it's still insane. The man is talking about throwing away and revising 40+ years of trade agreements and legislations, cancelling protection on decades of licensing and products, wrecking long term investments, involuntarily breaking contracts and destabilising micro and macro economy for millions of people and effectively forcing everyone to rebuild framework and re-start most agreements, paperwork and contracts from scratch. And all that because painters or bus drivers didn't get pay rise?

I'm sorry but these are stupid excuses. Voting "out" because paranoia of what EU might (or may not) become is stupid. Voting "out" because of blind hope that it will lead right wing forces to power and Boris or Nigel will stop globalisation and revert Britain to some sort of small town 1950ies paradise is stupid. It's stupid because it's so desperate, selfish, so emo, tantrum like - it's like burning your entire flat and leaving the building to live on the street just because you can't agree with your neighbours one morning. "I don't like how Romanians come here and earn peanuts driving buses, I don't want to be in Europe any more". Talk about drama.

It's one thing to believe that EU has too much bureaucracy and is in dire need of reform, but it's quite another to not even recognise just what a historic milestone and money and time saving device it is in terms of trade and everyday life. And to throw it all away, just because you don't like some stupid, tiny aspect of it, or because you go David Icke on some "don't trust faceless reptilian bureaucrat from Brussels" drunken conspiracy spiel. Or worse yet, because you strongly believe some nations or races are better than others, and so you would like to participate in some sort of fantasy selective globalisation - yes to Aussies but Bulgarians or Romanians - don't let them in, cause they're like, not as nice. Better yet - "if we could split and make EU 2 - you know - with the cooler countries - like Netherlands and Germany, but none of those poor looking ones - Greeks or Poles. We had about 30 pages of that kind of bizarro word parallel universe talk across EU threads recently.

1950s paradise? What I was told through other peoples and uncles life experiences, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s and early 80s was not even a glint of paradise.

This 1950s talk always keeps coming up across many forums.

 

[Burnsy2023]

What's so odd about all this is that it's become like a battle between two teams rather than about the issues. You see loads of things like 'im Brexit after Cameron did xyz' or 'I am definitely remain because of Boris'.

It's ridiculous. Everyone who wants to leave has been grouped together as one entity and the same for everyone who wants to remain. Then either side simply dismisses everything the other side says. What's the point? Both arguments have points for and against but this just gets lost.

We both know that democracy is more about being a popularity contest than serious debate about the issues. To expect anything else is foolhardy.

 

[Skunkworks]

When the vast majority of people are peaceful and content becuase they had a fair say, democracy is doing its job.

 

[Judgeneo]

Latest polls show a swing to remain.

 

[silversurfer]

1950s paradise? What I was told through other peoples and uncles life experiences, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s and early 80s was not even a glint of paradise.

This 1950s talk always keeps coming up across many forums.

1950's had rationing, dont think its really best of times not finance wise anyway. End of the british empire, some relief from not having to speak german maybe but mostly lots of debt to repay from the war.

UK will leave EU when it has to, there wont be a vote about it because the choice will be obvious at that point and any failings apparent that no measure of public sentiment is required.
I really doubt we leave right now when you got a chancellor threatening to raise taxes if we go out of the EU, people just dont see enough negatives for us to leave 'what works'
Human nature favours the path of least resistance, my estimate regardless of opinions on events forthcoming is thats the EU right now