Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (June Poll)

[MookJong]

Apologies if this has already been posted, but I have been going back looking at what was said about the EU prior to the last 6 months. You see some interesting things:

 

[Chris Wilson]

People include Turkey as a huge negative to stay but what is the likely hood they will join soon? Who can say, i doubt it will be within the next decade but my opinion on the issue matters as mucha s next mans.

Again someone, probably under thirty? quotes the magic decade, ten years, as though it were the next millennium. It;s just around the corner, and can anyone really see us being given another referendum in the next twenty years? Even talk of Turkey joining should be enough to vote leave!!

 

[sityeuropa]

If we remain in the EU, when can we expect to have trade deals with the USA, China, India, Australia, Brazil and more?

Why are the EU being so slow to move forward with this? It is potentially costing the European economy billions.

WHY because there are so many nations in the EU now, there are so many complications and variables. One country can put a stall on a deal being made.

One example being Italy exporting tomatoes into Australia ffs.

 

[[TW]Fox]

WHY because of so many nations in the EU now, there are so many complications and variables. One country can put a stall on a deal being made.

I thought the EU was a massive unelected beast that ignored the will of its members and forced everything on them against their will?

Now suddenly it's unable to do things because members veto them?

Make your mind up

 

[robfosters]

If we leave the EU I'm sure the Tories would love to rush through a TTIP style trade deal. Great!

They're slow because they want to do it properly and not give up on important red lines. There's a reason TTIP hasn't gone through, and is looking like it won't... neither side agrees on a common ground on many key issues. What makes you think we'd be able to come up with an agreement which suits both us and the United States, and doesn't have any unacceptable parts (for either side)? Would improved deals with other countries outweigh the economic cost of leaving the EU? How long would they take to agree?

Surely we would have a better chance when we are looking out for the interests of one country. The EU has to keep all member states happy in its trade agreements and that just throws up stumbling block after stumbling block due to the diversity of industries and issues around the EU.

It's like when you see those plate spinners try to keep the plates spinning on sticks all at once.

 

[Stretch]

If we remain in the EU, when can we expect to have trade deals with the USA, China, India, Australia, Brazil and more?

Why are the EU being so slow to move forward with this? It is potentially costing the European economy billions.

Well, the main reason it takes much longer in a large trading block like the EU, is there are broader interests to satisfy, and it only takes one member to say no.

I thought the EU was a massive unelected beast that ignored the will of its members and forced everything on them against their will?

Now suddenly it's unable to do things because members veto them?

Make your mind up

Democracy is inherently undemocratic for those who vote for the looser

 

[[TW]Fox]

Well, the main reason it takes much longer in a large trading block like the EU, is there are broader interests to satisfy, and it's only takes one member to say no.

Which demonstrates why the fears of us being forced into a federal Europe are unfounded - one country is all it takes to put the brakes on something like a trade deal, yet for something more serious apparently we'd have no choice (Despite the fact the UK law would prevent us agreeing without a referendum!).

So many logic holes in these arguments.

Can we decide if the EU is an ineffective monster unable to get anything through OR an all-powerful monster that can force through whatever it likes please.

 

[Stretch]

Which demonstrates why the fears of us being forced into a federal Europe are unfounded - one country is all it takes to put the brakes on something like a trade deal, yet for something more serious apparently we'd have no choice (Despite the fact the UK law would prevent us agreeing without a referendum!).

So many logic holes in these arguments.

Can we decide if the EU is an ineffective monster unable to get anything through OR an all-powerful monster that can force through whatever it likes please.

I agree. I don't really buy into the undemocratic arguments.

The reason the EU is undemocratic is by choice. We choose not to yield sovereignty to Europe, as do many other countries. If there's a criticism of the EU to be had, it's that in reality it's just an expensive talking shop. They have very little to vote on. Most of the real power still lies with national governments, and the mere threat of veto means things move slowly.

If you want to make the EU move faster, and more decisively on the big issues, you need to give it real power and have majority voting.

 

[Lopéz]

Can we decide if the EU is an ineffective monster unable to get anything through OR an all-powerful monster that can force through whatever it likes please.

No, it's both, just accept it like you will have to accept the 88 million Turks who are literally waiting for the next boat over

Whenever I hear the "88 million Turks" line I have a vision of something like this:

 

[413x]

Just about on the remain side, after swinging over end of last month

Economy - no preference, to hard to predict
Immigration - seems to be only way to trade with EU may be free movement anyway and out would couple this to no veto on turkey joining
Environment - EU has probably helped here, although we don't need the EU to do this as an expensive middle man, I don't think UK government would.

Still plenty of time to swing back or abstain

 

[RaohNS]

I thought the EU was a massive unelected beast that ignored the will of its members and forced everything on them against their will?

Now suddenly it's unable to do things because members veto them?

Make your mind up

Out of context poster is out of context.

Its undemocratic on many levels. The vote side they have is a bit of both but is undemocratic in regards to something the British may want can be vetoed or outvoted by other countries eg Romania or Poland.

The EU is unelected. Without looking it up can you tell me the key figures of the EU? Could you tell me the years they were elected? I doubt anyone other than a political commentator could if they were being honest.

Lets have the easy one first:
President (even I know this unless Farage is lying)
High Representative
Vice President which there are 6
Head of the ECB
The UK's European Minister

I certainly didn't vote for Mr J.

 

[antijoke]

I thought the EU was a massive unelected beast that ignored the will of its members and forced everything on them against their will?

Now suddenly it's unable to do things because members veto them?

Make your mind up

I take it you are pro Europe?

 

[RaohNS]

Just about on the remain side, after swinging over end of last month

Economy - no preference, to hard to predict
Immigration - seems to be only way to trade with EU may be free movement anyway and out would couple this to no veto on turkey joining
Environment - EU has probably helped here, although we don't need the EU to do this as an expensive middle man, I don't think UK government would.

Still plenty of time to swing back or abstain

Rebuffals:
Economy: We save £15bn and renegotiate and have 2yrs to set up our deals. With £12tr worth of money we are very lucrative for investors and business
Turkey issue - we are in the EU we could still be vetoed on Turkey joining...
Environment - it has I agree but we can just copy its rules. Laws are not subject to copyright

 

[Six6siX]

A side line concern I have is with the recent government proposals and statements regarding internet privacy / net neutrality and the push towards making encryption appear evil (more an American thing with the Apple/FBI case - but this seems to be a recurring trend within Britain).

I (rightly or wrongly) get the impression that being part of the EU might give us more leverage over things like this in case the British government suddenly decide they wanted to push down that route. On our own, we kinda wouldn't have any comeback.

Is there any truth to that? I genuinely don't know.

 

[Dazstar]

I will be voting to stay in the EU

I don't think we will gain anything by leaving and I believe we will be hit in our pockets for some time to come should we leave

 

[oneilldo]

Rebuffals:
Environment - it has I agree but we can just copy its rules. Laws are not subject to copyright

You could argue that in terms of environment they aren't quite as good as people keep claiming, think this has been linked before but guardian article

 

[Burnsy2023]

Rebuffals:
Economy: We save £15bn and renegotiate and have 2yrs to set up our deals. With £12tr worth of money we are very lucrative for investors and business
Turkey issue - we are in the EU we could still be vetoed on Turkey joining...
Environment - it has I agree but we can just copy its rules. Laws are not subject to copyright

Economy: But the EU has no incentive to make this easy for us. The security of the bloc is likely to be pressing more on Germany/France than pure economics. We may be able to get good deals outside of the EU, I won't pretend to know, but I think it's safe to say that even in the most favourable of circimstances, it will not be quick or easy.
Turkey: All member states must agree new members, if we are in the EU we have an absolute veto on Turkey's membership.
Environment: If it was so easy, why didn't we legislate on our own earlier? Probably because it's not on the UK gov's priority list.

 

[greywolf]

Just about on the remain side, after swinging over end of last month


Immigration - seems to be only way to trade with EU may be free movement anyway and out would couple this to no veto on turkey joining

Still plenty of time to swing back or abstain

With that immigration policy I see it that we import such a large amount from Europe that we keep many employed in various EU countires. These counties leaders would be commiting political suicide if they were not to let the trade continue since the employment and income it brings to them. I fail to see why a trade deal should be tied to immigration, and it being said we can't trade unless free movement. EU often acts like a group of bullies to put it simply, not a group I would want to be apart of.

 

[fez]

Really hard to decide as there is no right answer and ultimately its a complete unknown if we leave. That being said, I kind of want to see what happens if we do leave. I'm intrigued.

 

[Burnsy2023]

A side line concern I have is with the recent government proposals and statements regarding internet privacy / net neutrality and the push towards making encryption appear evil (more an American thing with the Apple/FBI case - but this seems to be a recurring trend within Britain).

I (rightly or wrongly) get the impression that being part of the EU might give us more leverage over things like this in case the British government suddenly decide they wanted to push down that route. On our own, we kinda wouldn't have any comeback.

Is there any truth to that? I genuinely don't know.

Lets look generally: Germany especially is very pro individual privacy. The political landscape in the UK is more authoritarian. It is more likely that the EU will have objections over online privacy than the UK gov will.