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Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (May Poll)
- Thread starter Burnsy2023
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Okay, threatening to leave if your demands aren't met, and maybe leaving anyway if they are, isn't a strong negotiating position. I don't know why you'd think it would be. Diplomacy takes time, patience and a respect for the other parties; Cameron has shown none of this.
Oh, and we're already a strong, sovereign nation. If you get your way, we'll become a weaker, less influential, less powerful nation with less sway on the international stage and weaker ties with our allies.
We have, right now, a good deal for both the UK and EU; you want to abandon it.
I'm in / out almost on a daily basis.
The scaremongering of the in crowd citing doom if we leave erks me, I thought Boris's point yesterday about what they said when we exited the ERM was a good one though from solely a UK point of view.
But, this isn't just about the UK it's about the whole EU project and the implications for Europe as a whole, something I think Boris conveniently forgets....
I think we're on the verge of an exit without having thought through the consequences for us in the short term and the European continent long term, we forget the last two world wars started in Europe and for all its many many flaws the EU has imo helped keep the peace in Europe at least, we need to be VERY careful of what we wish for.....
The scaremongering of the in crowd citing doom if we leave erks me, I thought Boris's point yesterday about what they said when we exited the ERM was a good one though from solely a UK point of view.
But, this isn't just about the UK it's about the whole EU project and the implications for Europe as a whole, something I think Boris conveniently forgets....
I think we're on the verge of an exit without having thought through the consequences for us in the short term and the European continent long term, we forget the last two world wars started in Europe and for all its many many flaws the EU has imo helped keep the peace in Europe at least, we need to be VERY careful of what we wish for.....
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How can we be a sovereign nation when we've transferred our sovereignty to another country under the 1972 European Communities Act? Surely you can't be denying we did this? Even pro-EU actors now acknowledge this was the case.
You know I'm not one who sticks up for David Cameron very often - I can and do describe him with negative words, but incompetent is not a word I would associate with him (annoyingly). He's actually very good at his job - which is to stay in the top job and keep the Tories in power. His thin gruel deal was so weak because he knew if he asked for anything more he wouldn't get it. We are not respected in the EU, we never have been and we never will be - we're a cash cow, they like taking our money and spending it the French way, but they don't like listening to us, or acknowledging that the way we do things is sometimes right.
That's basically what we're voting on isn't it? Whether or not the UK gets a good deal from the EU or not. You say we do (though I note are often unable to say what's so good about it), I say we don't.
No we aren't and haven't been for many years.
It's alright the Germans started the last 2 wars and they're a bunch of wimps now, plus we're all in the big happy NATO family, one in all in and all that jazz. In all seriousness, who'd go to war in Western Europe these days? We're all quite good friends, plus there hasn't been a war between developed countrys in a long time.
There is one nation in the EU that has a recent history of military aggression.
I don't think being in the or out of the EU is going to stop us invading anyother nation. It hasn't up till now.
Sadly this is true.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-29987193
During important discussions for the CFP in 2010 the UK instead of sending the Scottish fisheries minister who was very knowlegable about Scottish and UK fishing needs they decided to send and unelected Lord who knew nothing about the Scottish and UK fishing industry and negotiated a very bad dead for UK fishing. (Yes guess what the UK has unelected people deciding UK law
)By leaving they will have to like I said immediately join the EEA in which they will have and I can't state this strongly enough a VERY WEAK bargaining position. As it will be 28 member states v the UK or even rUK once Scotland gains EU membership.
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If we weren't sovereign, we couldn't leave the EU.
And on every major matter of policy - education, health, social welfare, taxation, defence, etc. - the most important decisions are made not in Brussels but in Westminster.
He's incompetent in Europe, which is what we were talking about. I'll agree he's done well to get the Tories back in power, but I think the fact that this is the third referendum on which he's backed the 'No' option is a sign of how weak a Prime Minister he has been.
The UK has been hugely influential in Europe and continues to be so - from market policy to European enlargement we've shaped the policy for the continent. And the one thing we're absolutely, unquestionably, going to be if we leave the EU, is less influential in the EU. You cannot possibly imagine that leaving our seat at the table and withdrawing our elected representatives from the EU parliament can make us more influential, can you?
Apart from the free market, free movement, shared regulation, common investment in science, the increase in our influence in Europe and around the world, and all that other stuff I, and others, have talked about? Being part of the EU is a huge benefit to the UK economy, and the right of free movement so we can live and work anywhere in the UK is an enormous freedom that British citizens currently enjoy and, of course, we benefit hugely from EU immigration to the UK under the same right.
Who is we?
When the British Army is transferred to the EU Army (any honest person knows this day is coming) then we won't be able to. It'll be up to Jean-Claude Juncker's successor to decide if the Falklands are worth re-capturing, or if an intervention in Sierra Leone is viable.
BTW - lots of other EU nations took part in the recent wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.
I think it's impossible for a major war to break out between developed countries nowadays, you'd struggle to mobilise people for a start.
Sadly that's far from the truth.
War is started by leaders and Europe as never been so close to being run by the far right as it is now.
I'm an honest person and I can't see it coming.
The EU is clearly moving towards a federal system, it makes sense to have an EU army. Not that I agree with either.
Yes but
The British.
For now - we know there are plans to transfer decision making authority to Brussels for some of these issues. I expect when this happens you'll be somehow arguing in favour of this.
The fact he's won two of them and is probably going to win the third indicates you're wrong.
So who then would be more competent in Europe? Who could have gone to Brussels and got the fundamental reform that we were promised? Boris? Corbyn? Clegg?
That absolutely makes no sense at all - of course we'll be more influential if we leave the EU. If for example an Asian country wants to do some trade with Britain and needs a deal, at the moment they go to the EU, if we Brexit they'll come to us. As more and more decision making powers such as foreign policy and defence are transferred to Brussels, thus our influence diminishes.
I sometimes get the impression that the only influence we have is with the Americans which we get by telling them what goes on in Brussels. It benefits the PM and other senior politicians who can line up cushy NGO jobs after their political careers are over, but when has our 'influence' resulted in advantages for Britain?
Do you mean common market and not free market? If so, other countries have access to it without losing their sovereignty.
Free movement - debatable whether this is an overall advantage or not.
Shared regulation - don't want this, want regulations for the UK decided in the UK and not externally.
Common investment in science - so we give the EU £350m a week, and they spend what? £150m a week in the UK. Great
Maybe if we didn't give them as much money we could clear the national debt quicker and start investing in public services like the NHS again.
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