Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (May Poll)

[Mulder]

I'm afraid you're wrong. I think maybe the last time you mentioned that stuff I sat down with a couple of big WTO law books and started writing a massive post, but frankly couldn't be arsed to finish! Basically, your interpretation of Art. 2.4 TBT is fundamentally flawed and it doesn't mean what you think it does. Well, the interpretation of the sources you referred to back then, anyway. They have to bear international standards in mind, but they're allowed to make different ones if there's a reason to. They're just not allowed to construct artificial barriers to trade which don't have a legitimate reason and are just there as barriers/protectionism.

Any source for that? Or do you just hope I'll believe you?

This EFTA report shows that more than 90 percent of the laws of the single market include policy areas covered by UN or other global bodies. Norway has more influence in drafting laws originating from these sources than Britain, as we have to accept the "common position" agreed within the EU without the right of veto.

It's the same with standards - everything is going global. Who cares about having "influence" in the EU processes (which we don't) if standards are becoming increasingly global in nature? The entrepreneur on the Newsnight economics special made that exact point, the EU's "policies/standards etc" are becoming redundant as everything is going global.

The EU is an out-of date protectionist bureaucracy that's driven up food prices for everyone in the EU. Tariffs globally have been in decline for many years, and the further into the future we go the more and more irrelevant the EU's policies will be.

 

[Tefal]

One of the big things thats always pointed out about negatives is "we can veto it" but will we be able to?

http://www.politico.eu/article/eu-can-still-block-hungarys-orban-veto-on-polish-pis-sanctions/

Depending on the coutcome of this the EU could be about to try and remove polands right to vote but because of the aituation with hungry have to move against both at the same time.

But if this fails and ends up contested i think we will see a rapid move to warda removing unanimous decisioms across the board and moving to majority decisions

 

[{T5K}TT]

Any source for that? Or do you just hope I'll believe you?

This EFTA report shows that more than 90 percent of the laws of the single market include policy areas covered by UN or other global bodies. Norway has more influence in drafting laws originating from these sources than Britain, as we have to accept the "common position" agreed within the EU without the right of veto.

It's the same with standards - everything is going global. Who cares about having "influence" in the EU processes (which we don't) if standards are becoming increasingly global in nature? The entrepreneur on the Newsnight economics special made that exact point, the EU's "policies/standards etc" are becoming redundant as everything is going global.

The EU is an out-of date protectionist bureaucracy that's driven up food prices for everyone in the EU. Tariffs globally have been in decline for many years, and the further into the future we go the more and more irrelevant the EU's policies will be.

I agree with you.

There is another point. If the UK government negotiates trade deals then we can hold them to account for the consequences of such deals at a general election. With the EU bureaucrats negotiating trade deals 'on our behalf', that democratic accountability is undermined. Sure we have some input into the nature of the deal, but so do other EU member countries who want the deal to best fit their economy.
We are being told by the remain in the EU camp that somehow sacrificing democratic accountability is 'good for economic growth', which runs completely counter to economic history. More democracy is good for economic growth, not less. And, lets not forget, the average growth rates in the EU have been miserable: The EU zone has been comprehensively outperformed by the USA. The German, French, Italian, Spanish, Greek (etc) economies have failed to reform, they have horrifically high rates of long term unemployment. Why should the UK remain in this failing block? We should leave and look to form other deals with the dynamic emerging economies around the World. Of course we can and will keep trading with the EU, but we should not be bound by the EU's integration agenda, which is locking in high long term unemployment and failure to reform.

 

[izzop]

I wondered how long it would be until we heard from Millipede...

Miliband 'call to arms' for young voters

 

[scorza]

I wondered how long it would be until we heard from Millipede...

Miliband 'call to arms' for young voters

David Millipede, whose charity is facing a fraud allegation in the US over its Syrian aid operations, has been fairly vocal that we should submit to the EU. Couldn't even beat his little brother...

 

[Naff8000]

I'm frankly getting sick and tired of the utter rubbish from both remain and leave now.

I should've expected no less from our politicians though in fairness.

I'm getting sick of the whole thing. Just get it over with.

 

[Destination]

Are there any countrywide, large scale polls of recent?

 

[flowrider99]

Economically? A whole host of respected, major economic organisations have said they reckon the UK would be better of with Bremain. There's a reason Vote Leave are abandoning the economic argument/want to focus on migration...

Are these the same organisations that said we should join the Euro

 

[Roughneck]

wouldn't care if it cost me 10k a year and started WW3 (or whatever else project fear sprouted) Im still voting out!

 

[inogen]

I'm informed enough thank you very much. But then I have a degree in Economics and have been paying attention to this kind of stuff for 25 years, both professionally and out of personal interest.

I'm really not looking forward to a world with us out of the EU, Boris in Number 10 and Trump in the Whitehouse. It will be one hell of a cluster****.

 

[flowrider99]

The EU works like Eurovision........all the Eastern block countries agree with each other!

 

[dannyjo22]

Cameron came to our place and did a lovely 30 minute speech with a Q&A. By Q&A you had to submit your question for approval and if it was agreed you could ask it and it all looked improvised.

If the person asked such a unchallenging question and couldn't make the Q&A some other lucky sod got to read it out for them. It was such an utter sham, reading our work forum it's pushed more people to exit due to feeling like they had their intelligence insulted and why he couldn't field actual tough questions without prep.

 

[V F]

Are you shocked that it is all carefully staged, dannyjo?

 

[Trifid]

Cameron came to our place and did a lovely 30 minute speech with a Q&A. By Q&A you had to submit your question for approval and if it was agreed you could ask it and it all looked improvised.

If the person asked such a unchallenging question and couldn't make the Q&A some other lucky sod got to read it out for them. It was such an utter sham, reading our work forum it's pushed more people to exit due to feeling like they had their intelligence insulted and why he couldn't field actual tough questions without prep.

I'd ask my actual question and not the previous approved one...

 

[V F]

I'm informed enough thank you very much. But then I have a degree in Economics and have been paying attention to this kind of stuff for 25 years, both professionally and out of personal interest.

I'm really not looking forward to a world with us out of the EU, Boris in Number 10 and Trump in the Whitehouse. It will be one hell of a cluster****.

 

[McBain]

I have my postal vote in my grubby mitts. Up until this very second, I have always been Leave but I really now don't know at this critical instant!

I have my postal vote as well, voting leave before, still voting leave. No doubts.

 

[Burnsy2023]

In fairness your whole perspective (dressed up nearly of course) is one of an authoritarian nature.

Not sure if thats the german coming out in you or just the police part...

I think that's your preconceptions warping your view. I'm really not an authoritarian.

I'm not against referendums but asking Joe public to have the interest to learn about such a multi faceted debate and take all that information to come to a reasoned and well researched view point is an almost impossible ask.

People will vote based on fear, personalities and rhetoric which I think we can all agree is not ideal.

 

[Destination]

I'm informed enough thank you very much. But then I have a degree in Economics and have been paying attention to this kind of stuff for 25 years, both professionally and out of personal interest.

I'm really not looking forward to a world with us out of the EU, Boris in Number 10 and Trump in the Whitehouse. It will be one hell of a cluster****.

There is something oddly attractive about a spell of watching the world burn...
A strange fasciation with absurdity!

 

[Mojo]

At this point I probably sit in the 'Remain' camp.

This whole referendum has been remarkably similar to the Scottish Referendum: The 'Out' campaign has been very impassioned with the majority of arguments based around sovereignty ('take back our country' etc) and Daily Fail favourites like immigration.

However, similarly to the Scottish referendum the 'leave' camp has no has no independent studies or any evidence-based assertions that indicate that leaving will be any better for us in the long run.
The IMF, IFS and a number of other respected and ostensibly independent financial institutions have asserted that economically we will be worse off outside of the EU, and frankly I am inclined to listen to the specialists rather than the politicians (especially Boris Johnson) in this case!

 

[SlyReaper]

At this point I probably sit in the 'Remain' camp.

This whole referendum has been remarkably similar to the Scottish Referendum: The 'Out' campaign has been very impassioned with the majority of arguments based around sovereignty ('take back our country' etc) and Daily Fail favourites like immigration.

However, similarly to the Scottish referendum the 'leave' camp has no has no independent studies or any evidence-based assertions that indicate that leaving will be any better for us in the long run.
The IMF, IFS and a number of other respected and ostensibly independent financial institutions have asserted that economically we will be worse off outside of the EU, and frankly I am inclined to listen to the specialists rather than the politicians (especially Boris Johnson) in this case!

I'm quite prepared to believe we may be fractionally worse off economically by leaving. Don't care. I'd rather live in a democracy than a slightly richer oligarchy. At this point, even if I hadn't done my homework, I think I'd vote Leave just to spite everyone predicting doom and catastrophe.