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Maybe it's time we started using fire arms to deter or stop them.
Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (May Poll)
- Thread starter Burnsy2023
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What has this got to do with the EU referendum?
If the EU is such a daft economic experiment, why do just 5% of economists think we will better off out? Why do world leaders or financial institutions share the view with a huge majority of economists? Your view is in direct opposition of reputable sources, experts, studies which naturally begs the question, how did you come to your conclusion?
You didn't use facts or reputable sources to shape it, so what did you use? That's the elephant in the room of this whole Brexit mess and I think, at this point, most people - even yourself - know what nature of the elephant is.
I don't get why the main campaigners are focusing on it so much. Voters who focus on this are going to vote out anyway, so why preach to the converted? Dan hannan, Conservative mep comes across much better on the leave side for those who are weighing up many of the stay and leave arguments.
I posted another good video of his a few days ago in this thread.
If the EU is such a draft economic experiment, why do just 5% of economists think we will better off out? Why do world leaders or financial institutions share the view with a huge majority of economists? Your view is in direct opposition of reputable sources, experts, studies which naturally begs the question, how did you come to your conclusion?
You didn't use facts or reputable sources to shape it, so what did you use? That's the elephant in the room of this whole Brexit mess and I think, at this point, most people know what nature of the elephant is.
Because all the economic models are only based on what we know about being in the EU, none of them have any established data to model anything else.
No, that isn't how economic models work. They are built to work everywhere using fundamental relationships.
Models of autarky and international trade predate the EU by decades anyway.
I also find it hilarious how dismissive the leave camp ate of all reputable predictions.
If these models were so variable (which they are to an extent), that variability doesn't just mean things might be vetter than predicted, but things could actually be worse than predicted.
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It just goes to show they're all talking out their arses. Both sides.
I can't believe you've asked that ridiculous question.
What shows that exactly?
Care to defend your previous post? If I had to say who the above comment applies to, I can only see one person atm.
Soldato
Maybe you could highlight how things would be different with regard to your point, if the UK was not in the EU?
Nate
Trade tariffs. Lower levels of capital and human capital mobility.
Negotiations for all the matters will be one of unequals. The EU can ask for anything in return for allowing London to remain the financial centre of Europe.
We would lose any voice in European affairs that could detrimentally affect the EU (whether we are in the union or not).
Soldato
His point was about illegal immigrants crossing the channel in boats. I want to know how being out of the EU will affect that.
Nate
Sorry. I missed the context.
Caporegime
I shall have a listen, ta
Soldato
Have just been having a roundabout moment of reflection on this in terms of the economy.
What exactly is the economy based on?
Purchasing power. Are we going to just stop buying things overnight? I don't buy into the higher qualified thing too much anymore unless 99% of Londoners who have degree+ are voting in.
I spoke to a chap from the ESA on holiday just a few days ago and he is firmly out as are according to him all of his co-workers. They feel the EU is a big expensive mess (as he put it).
Other than on these forums I honestly cannot believe the figures or polls. Where are these 45-55% of people voting to remain? I've met one person.... One. I have asked at least a hundred people. I've met a few on the fence, some saying they aren't going to bother/cba etc everyone else is saying we should be out.
The economic arguments for remaining are based on lies now. That much is abundantly clear, lets just hope these low intelligence voters drawn in by the cheaper phone tariffs overseas on holidays they can't afford anyway have things put into perspective. Project fear is all that the Remain camp are throwing out.
What exactly is the economy based on?
Purchasing power. Are we going to just stop buying things overnight? I don't buy into the higher qualified thing too much anymore unless 99% of Londoners who have degree+ are voting in.
I spoke to a chap from the ESA on holiday just a few days ago and he is firmly out as are according to him all of his co-workers. They feel the EU is a big expensive mess (as he put it).
Other than on these forums I honestly cannot believe the figures or polls. Where are these 45-55% of people voting to remain? I've met one person.... One. I have asked at least a hundred people. I've met a few on the fence, some saying they aren't going to bother/cba etc everyone else is saying we should be out.
The economic arguments for remaining are based on lies now. That much is abundantly clear, lets just hope these low intelligence voters drawn in by the cheaper phone tariffs overseas on holidays they can't afford anyway have things put into perspective. Project fear is all that the Remain camp are throwing out.
If the EU is such a daft economic experiment, why do just 5% of economists think we will better off out? Why do world leaders or financial institutions share the view with a huge majority of economists? Your view is in direct opposition of reputable sources, experts, studies which naturally begs the question, how did you come to your conclusion?
You didn't use facts or reputable sources to shape it, so what did you use? That's the elephant in the room of this whole Brexit mess and I think, at this point, most people - even yourself - know what nature of the elephant is.
What you need to do is actually read what I wrote and reply to that, and not imagine things. But that you feel the need to deliberately mis-represent says a good deal about your confidence and faith in your position. I said the Euro was a daft economic experiment, not the EU (FYI: the Euro and EU are not the same thing). The Euro was always a terrible idea, and it is inflicting significant economic damage to the prospects of the many million of individuals locked into long term unemployment by the failure of economies such as France, Germany, Spain, Italy and Greece to reform. If you think I need to quote sources to support this, then with respect you are not following things closely. Do you think the Euro is wonderful?
Regarding a lot of economists thinking something is the correct thing to do, a lot of economists supported the UK entering the ERM. Look at what happened. Many economists supported the Euro and some even dared to suggest the UK give up the pound, and look at what is happening to those economies who adopted the Euro. If you know a tiny bit of monetary economics, then you will know of the dangers of a 'one-size-fits-all' interest rate. If you think the EU's average economic growth record is good, and the long term unemployment rates acceptable, then your comparative knowledge of economic history is not up to scratch.
What we are failing to get from those in favor of remaining in the EU is comprehensive reform agenda. To think that somehow 'all in OK in the EU' is to live not just on another planet, but another universe, or even outside it.
What of democracy? Some seem to be arguing that less democracy is good for growth. That is largely the position of the remain camp (because that is the result of further integration), and this runs counter to history. More democratic accountability goes hand in hand with improved economic circumstances. The late Tony Benn might have been wrong on a whole load of things, but one thing he got absolutely right was that the EU was not a democratically accountable organization. Surely you are not suggesting less democratic accountability is 'good for growth'? If you are, then your view is in direct opposition of reputable sources, experts, studies which naturally begs the question, how did you come to your conclusion?
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Soldato
I imagine most cant be arsed to talk about it, or can't be arsed to engage with foaming at the mouth Brexiteers (who are the ones who normally cry about polls and how, 'everyone they know is VOTING OUT'). Everyone rational knows that discussing politics with friends you have a fundamental political disagreement with is never going to end up with a positive outcome!
Strange circle of friends that
I'm certainly not a foaming at the mouth person but just don't like being played for a fool. To some extent people who are scared about being £4300 a year worse off (according to the Chancellor) are being taken for a ride. Some of the points made (aka almost all) by the remain have literally just been regurgitated from under a bridge.
Finally got around to watching the Paxman program last night.
Paxman in Brussels: Who Really Rules Us?
Have been decided for a very long time on which way I'm voting so it hasn't influenced my decision, but rather reaffirmed it.
Very much worth a watch and if anyone I knew said they were still undecided due to not having a clue on how the EU works I'd suggest they watch it.
I was rather surprised by it, or rather the fact it was a BBC program, considering the apparent bias stance the BBC has shown over the whole thing. Certainly wouldn't be surprised if they were slightly apposed to airing it.
Paxman in Brussels: Who Really Rules Us?
Have been decided for a very long time on which way I'm voting so it hasn't influenced my decision, but rather reaffirmed it.
Very much worth a watch and if anyone I knew said they were still undecided due to not having a clue on how the EU works I'd suggest they watch it.
I was rather surprised by it, or rather the fact it was a BBC program, considering the apparent bias stance the BBC has shown over the whole thing. Certainly wouldn't be surprised if they were slightly apposed to airing it.
As has been mentioned multiple times, and even backed up by leave voters posting actual Cameron quotes. He talked about instability, leave campaigners seem to have taken that as meaning WW3...
Just to clarify, that point was in response to someone saying most remainders will probably vote in because they want to save money on their phone bills and cheap flights. Hyperbole for hyperbole...
As for why it's unlikely to affect us, that has been discussed multiple in this thread alone.
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