Poll: The EU Referendum: How Will You Vote? (May Poll)

[datalol-jack]

Yesterday's men wanting yesterday...

A perfect description of Jacob Rees-Mogg.

They hate all three: free trade, international law and meaningful diplomacy. Trouble for them: the Empire is gone; and the leader of the free world tells them not to put words in his mouth (from the back of the queue).

 

[Conscript]

Free press... OK Kim

If you read alternate news sites and or open "people reporting" websites you will see that sexual assaults are still happening daily, riots still breaking out at various "detention" centres. And that's just the easy to see and find stuff!

The decision to leave the EU is an incredibly complicated one with many different factors to consider and potentially massive implications for the future of our culture, economy and political spectrum.

Should we forget the migrant crisis exists? Absolutely not. Should we allow it to be the sole and/or the most important factor in determining whether or not to leave the EU? Again, no. But by going to a referendum, the decision is being placed in the hands of people who do no more research into the matter than reading and swallowing whatever is reported in the tabloid press. 24hr news coverage of the migrant crisis would mean all the people too dense to do a little research into the huge impact of the decision they are making voting out without even stopping to consider what part the EU has had in creating the crisis anyway.

 

[Dolph]

Freedom from the Eurozone and the large rebate are probably the biggest preferential terms we have.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UK_rebate

Also exemption from schengen is a big one.

 

[datalol-jack]

We get some of our own money back, but with specific conditions as to how it can be spent? I love this preferential treatment, SIGN ME UP!!!!

No, the rebate portion never leaves our coffers in the first place -- it's a discount on the membership fee, with a formula accounting for our economic output, contribution to the EU and the return in investment, year-on-year.

Then we get investment on top. Some of which, in the form of CAP/CFP distribution is disproportionate to our production of sea and agricultural products (what's not to like?).

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

Get it right. For once.

 

[datalol-jack]

Also exemption from schengen is a big one.

And we can veto new entrants, the EU budget and EU-wide trade agreements which do not suit us, etc. Something tells me Norway has to take it as is, you know, the fact bit of fact.

 

[Insanties_birth]

A perfect description of Jacob Rees-Mogg.

They hate all three: free trade, international law and meaningful diplomacy. Trouble for them: the Empire is gone; and the leader of the free world tells them not to put words in his mouth (from the back of the queue).

Do we need to keep oiling those wheels so you can spin out more fud? I preferred when you had meaningful input but it's been a while I suppose. Maybe that is wishing for yesterday too

I could throw out some rhetoric about federalist Europe and the failure to instill a fair democracy that reaches the people but what is the point? I think it'd fuel the new you more than yesterday you still, maybe visions of the Empire beats visions of licking Brussels shoes to the sound of modern slavery of nations. Both arguably facetious and exaggerated but that's the tone for today I suppose, that bright bright future you offer.

 

[datalol-jack]

Do we need to keep oiling those wheels so you can spin out more fud? I preferred when you had meaningful input but it's been a while I suppose. Maybe that is wishing for yesterday too

I could throw out some rhetoric about federalist Europe and the failure to instill a fair democracy that reaches the people but what is the point? I think it'd fuel the new you more than yesterday you

You clearly do not follow JRM much.

 

[Insanties_birth]

You clearly do not follow JRM much.

Probably not, not even sure what the abbreviation stands for but I just feel the time for joking and snide mockery could be put to one side in favour of getting info. Maybe it's just my agitation to rid ourselves of the misinformation and the disappointment at the sore lack of bias free government factoids.

The referendum is drawing closer and I just feel it's time to lay the cards on the table rather than try and use them for smoke and mirror games. Won't argue forever about it though so do as you do but if you really want to convince people then I'm just stating it's probably not working that way.

Edit: Looks like it's referring to jacob again actually.
Edit 2: ah nvm me. Misread your vote and thought you was more insulting all brexiters again. My bad.

 

[campbell]

Unless someone can convince me that it will massively effect my day to day life I'll just stay in.

 

[[TW]Fox]

We get some of our own money back, but with specific conditions as to how it can be spent? I love this preferential treatment, SIGN ME UP!!!!

Getting back money we are technically being overcharged in the first place is a good benefit I suppose. If only that eu approach of not slapping policy on 28 different countries and then hoping it works (which it wouldn't have worked fairly without intervention) was swapped for something a little more personal and refined.

Still it's better than nothing and at least we get it, wouldn't we remain exempt from the euro zone if we voted to stay out of the EU and joined a trade agreement still?

The point was that somebody asked about leaving and then re-joining later. Irrespective of the points you make, they are concessions we'd probably not get again if we went back in.

 

[[TW]Fox]

The air isn't cleaner.

You're saying that the air quality is absolutely no different now than it would have been had we not bothered with ANY of the EU emissions standards and allowed free reign over emissions?

Really?

 

[datalol-jack]

Probably not, not even sure what the abbreviation stands for

Jacob Rees-Mogg.

but I just feel the time for joking and snide mockery could be put to one side in favour of getting info. Maybe it's just my agitation to rid ourselves of the misinformation and the disappointment at the sore lack of bias free government factoids.

The referendum is drawing closer and I just feel it's time to lay the cards on the table rather than try and use them for smoke and mirror games. Won't argue forever about it though so do as you do but if you really want to convince people then I'm just stating it's probably not working that way.

I'm campaigning with the official pro-EU fellas, and that's where my convincing shall be done. My earlier contributions remain, and stand, in the speakers corner and in the earlier threads. If the Brexit thralls offer something genuinely new, they might get something genuinely new back. For now they appear content recycling info from the same old blogs and twitter feeds.

Until then, find your entertainment here: http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/treasury-committee/.

Let's just say, Brexiteers are following the Mogg-Mulder gambit, tried and tested in our democracy, of talking the issue out without actually addressing the multiple deficiencies, paranoia and downright conspiracies in their argument paraded as fact.

That is all.

 

[Insanties_birth]

The point was that somebody asked about leaving and then re-joining later. Irrespective of the points you make, they are concessions we'd probably not get again if we went back in.

That was me. Hence why I made it a point to state I recognised they were benefits bit we'd have to weigh them against the benefits of just being out of the EU and in a trade agreement which has other benefits as well. I'm still unsure if we'd remain out of schengen and Eurozone if we voted out and entered a trade agreement though.

 

[datalol-jack]

You're saying that the air quality is absolutely no different now than it would have been had we not bothered with ANY of the EU emissions standards and allowed free reign over emissions?

Really?

It's a sore point for Boris and Londoners. None of it is to do with the EU, and rather more to do with the former chap's mayoralty, promises and delivery. But he's moving on to angling for the top seat in the land now, so for him it's ancient history. Control our borders, sovereignty and special deals are all the rage at the moment: Make Britain Great Again! Lol.

 

[[TW]Fox]

I'm still unsure if we'd remain out of schengen and Eurozone if we voted out and entered a trade agreement though.

I'm fairly sure we'd remain out of both of those irrespective of any future choices we make.

 

[Insanties_birth]

Jacob Rees-Mogg.



I'm campaigning with the official pro-EU fellas, and that's where my convincing shall be done. My earlier contributions remain, and stand, in the speakers corner and in the earlier threads. If the Brexit thralls offer something genuinely new, they might get something genuinely new back. For now they appear content recycling info from the same old blogs and twitter feeds.

Until then, find your entertainment here: http://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/treasury-committee/.

Let's just say, Brexiteers are following the Mogg-Mulder gambit, tried and tested in our democracy, of talking the issue out without actually addressing the multiple deficiencies, paranoia and downright conspiracies in their argument paraded as fact.

That is all.

I edited my last post, my bad as I misinterpreted the point you was making and I admit that. I thought you was sticking to insulting brexit supporters rather than a sideline joke about some politician.

I can't say I quite agree with your point in full there about brexiters though. As I said before there is lots of misinformation and I agree 'some' people get too into it and ignore issues but with the the exit period, decently defined ideas of how other countries operate outside the eu, existing trade agreement models and the fact we'd get to keep some say with the decision shaping process ... would we really lose as much as the pro EU camp suggests? It seems to me there's trade options with the eu that even if you wanted to remain in the EU (but we voted out) that we'd not really be a million miles from where we are at the moment anyway. The holes you speak of could do with addressing but largely I see a very viable route out that if that was left as our last option it could still have a negative impact but not unreasonably so that day to day life would change.

There's been a bit of fear a d paranoia spreading in that regard but let's be honest, we're going to need to trade with the eu anyway so trade agreements are a given if we leave, this leaves us to pick up the pieces on a few bits but while it could negatively impact us I feel the amount it will do so has been largely fear mongering.

 

[Insanties_birth]

I'm fairly sure we'd remain out of both of those irrespective of any future choices we make.

It was listed as one of the benefits of being in the eu though as our special position so I felt I had to double check that as I doubt we'd ever get in schengen anyway so that is not really a benefit that sways me.

The rebate is fair enough though, we .Might lose that and I'd hope they wouldn't overturn it but who knows.

 

[Mulder]

No, the rebate portion never leaves our coffers in the first place -- it's a discount on the membership fee, with a formula accounting for our economic output, contribution to the EU and the return in investment, year-on-year.

Then we get investment on top. Some of which, in the form of CAP/CFP distribution is disproportionate to our production of sea and agricultural products (what's not to like?).

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

Get it right. For once.

Back to debating the facts are we? I thought you'd given up on debating and were just posting links to irrelevant Youtube videos or talking about lizards or similar.

The very link you post above quotes:

It’s not enough to look at the net contribution in isolation because what we get back isn’t fully under our control.

So £8.5bn we pay net, but there's more on top of that which we pay but for that money we're told specifically what it has to be spent on. Sounds like a great deal to me.....

As for CAP, you can try and claim that's a benefit to the people of Britain but I'm not sure how given it's led to food prices going up for everyone:

Imagine there was a Food Tax which had the effect of raising food prices by, say, 17% on average. The tax revenue was collected centrally, and then disbursed to agricultural producers. That tax would be incredibly unpopular, especially in times of rising food prices. The Food Tax would be too obviously recognisable as an instrument of redistributing money from sales assistants and cleaners to wealthy landowners.

The Food Tax is no fiction, of course. Ultimately, the Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) has precisely that effect.

 

[Dolph]

Its we kind of being touted as one of the benefits of being in the eu though as our special position so I felt I had to double check that as I doubt we'd ever get in schengen anyway so that is not really a benefit that sways me.

The rebate is fair enough though, we .Might lose that and I'd hope they wouldn't overturn it but who knows.

Accepting schengen and the euro are two requirements for all new members.

 

[Randomface74]

You're saying that the air quality is absolutely no different now than it would have been had we not bothered with ANY of the EU emissions standards and allowed free reign over emissions?

Really?

I think it's worse.

There's tons more cars, just from being in the real world and breathing the air, it seems pretty obvious the air is not cleaner.

Has anyone been round cleaning the air up?