Poll: The EU Referendum: What Will You Vote? (New Poll)

[datalol-jack]

You carry on thinking we get more back from the EU than we pay in if you like.

I shall, until the Leave campaign bothers to submit the set of EU and UK accounts they are looking when making their case to the electorate.

Hopefully Gove or Boris can press on that point from the inside, or tell them to shut up about it.

 

[John40]

For all those that want out and cite the £55 million a day (which is a gross figure) do you think if we pulled out governments would just spend it in the UK instead?

Of course not but at least we'd be able to spend it on what we wanted rather than building roads in Romania.

 

[v0n]

"We can take out our anger on elected representatives in Westminster but whoever is in Government in London cannot remove or reduce VAT"

I had no Idea the UK had no control over VAT.

Of course UK has control over VAT, as demonstrated by two internal UK VAT changes (reduction and rise) since 2008.

This is the crux of the matter. People at present just don't know enough about how the EU really affects our daily lives to make an informed decision.

This is the part that always baffled me. Most of eurosceptics don't know ANYTHING about EU, bar few retarded UKIP propaganda oneliners, most can't even name their MEP, but omg, do they have solid and entrenched position on brexit, complete with foxhole, machine gun nest and a small music box to play teary eye version of Jerusalem in the background just in the right moment...

And then there is that weird logic. One of the founder and leading countries among 28 nations working as one without fighting each other every step of the way for the first time in history, ever. They trade together, they stand together, they protect each others interests together. For decades. All the nations on the continent (and beyond) that aren't part of the group, do everything in their power to be allowed in. But you can't fool Nigel from Downe. Oh no. He can see this conspiracy through and through. Disregard 27 nations of cretins and 5 blind sheep candidates for membership, Nige knows better, he can and will turn this island into Switzerland on North Sea - the only thing standing on the way are those faceless bureaucrats from Brussels and them human rights (pffft). And that makes sense to 50+% of this forum and 40+% of the nation...

Boris has declared OUT.

Well, that's the end of his career.

 

[Rexxar]

Keep seeing mention that being out wont actually return power to the British Government, can't quite understand how we could be out but still dictated to?

 

[datalol-jack]

I'd have a pretty boring life if I always played it safe.


Sigh...

For jelly donuts and baby turtles datalol-jack stop acting like you're actually 100% correct. You have come to a conclusion upon the information you have digested... Which is your opinion.

Yes uncertainty is a large hurdle if we leave.

But for all the salt in Russia stop claiming we are economically better in the EU as though it's grounded fact. It's statistics which can always be rigged.

While you are happy trusting CBI and other foundations I'd rather believe a fund manager whose entire business is based on making money. Rather than just studying numbers.

Hang on. Why would, for the sake of keeping the UK staying in public referendum nobody knew about up till the last GE, all the major world economic organisations, which publish public statistics, go in collusion to 'rig' the information that would be used to hold the EU and UK trade figures to account.

How would we borrow money from the global markets, for starters? You know, if we are losing cash on everything, and everyone is robbing us blind.

Why is our credit rating holding up, and the interest rates are at an all time low? Surely, if all was bull faeces, the markets would've ended us long ago. Oh wait... didn't happen!

 

[datalol-jack]

Keep seeing mention that being out wont actually return power to the British Government, can't quite understand how we could be out but still dictated to?

Look at the EU's FTA terms and conditions. That's at minimum what we are planning to get, apparently. Plenty of stuff to comply with still, some money to pay, greater non-tariff cost of trade due to a gimped common market membership it bestows -- no say in the workings of it if we go though. Some power.

 

[kindai]

It must really annoy you jack that you only get 1 vote given how absolutely right you are without question

I'm going to smile when I put my vote to leave in, im going to just think yea, i've just nullified jacks vote, I can be happy now.

 

[datalol-jack]

It must really annoy you jack that you only get 1 vote given how absolutely right you are without question

I'm going to smile when I put my vote to leave in, im going to just think yea, i've just nullified jacks vote, I can be happy now.

It ain't over till our dear Mr Johnson sings!

 

[izzop]

Nothing is certain in life. But which deal would you rather believe? One written on paper, signed with a working organisation; one offered as a pipe dream, verbally, by people who have no power to make anything they promise come true.

You are indeed right, nothing is certain in life.

However, what is certain is the the EU model/experiment is truely broken and failing. So much so, that over time it will be disappearing up its own....

It's full of arrogance and self importance, so much so that it's in denial over this very fact. If they even made an effort to look inward and go through a self reform to get it back on track would be a start, but alas No, and it's something that will never happen.

The wheels have been coming off this cart for a long while and they continue to do so, but never mind let's throw a few more countries on and into the mix.

The EU can barely manage to govern itself, I certainly don't want it to continue to interfere with how our politicians govern our country.

To answer your question. I'm more than happy to go it without that "working organisation" you speak of.

Unfortunately however I feel that the In campaign will come out on top, sadly. Although a lot of it will be through instilling fear and misinformation into the general public.

 

[datalol-jack]

snip

I'm not being unduly harsh, izzop. But if we cannot make something like the EU work for us, as Out claims; how can we manage the world with both the EU and other challenges in it? Just my 2p.

I'm eager to see what comes out in the campaign. But the political In camp will be far more hard-nosed about it than I am, that's for sure.

 

[v0n]

However, what is certain is the the EU model/experiment is truely broken and failing. So much so, that over time it will be disappearing up its own....

It's full of arrogance and self importance, so much so that it's in denial over this very fact. If they even made an effort to look inward and go through a self reform to get it back on track would be a start, but alas No, and it's something that will never happen.

The wheels have been coming off this cart for a long while and they continue to do so, but never mind let's throw a few more countries on and into the mix.

Well... look, it seems to be working for all the other kids in the class, so... On one hand - let's say you are right - those 27 kids happily playing with each other are in reality "arrogant and self important", their company is "truely broken" and "the wheels are coming off this cart". On the other hand, maybe the problem is with that one fussy kid in the corner who didn't pay attention for too long, and now wants to leave the classroom, blaming others?

 

[rawuk]

Hang on. Why would, for the sake of keeping the UK staying in public referendum nobody knew about up till the last GE, all the major world economic organisations, which publish public statistics, go in collusion to 'rig' the information that would be used to hold the EU and UK trade figures to account.

How would we borrow money from the global markets, for starters? You know, if we are losing cash on everything, and everyone is robbing us blind.

Why is our credit rating holding up, and the interest rates are at an all time low? Surely, if all was bull faeces, the markets would've ended us long ago. Oh wait... didn't happen!

My dear friend datalol-jack! You misunderstand me.

Where have I ever stated that I think the EU is robbing us blind...?

Or that, in my opinion, the EU provides a negative econimc impact to the UK...?

Or that the CBI were infact lying scoundrels force feeding us rat milk statistics in the hope of beginning their stage 3 plan of world domination through a frenzy of fear and confusion?!

I did not.

I simply mean to iterate that your constant badgering about the EU being assuredly the best economic position for the country is on very shaky ground and that some reputable sources are stating it's more than likely neutral.

This of course means nothing against your argument about the EU potentially providing better social security and workers rights. Which I think is where the debate will head to.

 

[Insanties_birth]

Have a look at my last reply to George Hincapie on power and sovereignty. That's what I think it comes down to.

But re Gove's stance, like the PM, I'd never find occasional frustration on its own a good reason to leave any big organisation with demonstrable economic advantages. Besides, we haven't been treated like a second-rate member over the decades: exemptions, rebates, considerable input from British heads into the formation, rules and law governing the common market and human rights, etc. This latest emergency summit and deal is only the latest in a long string of special treatments.

Lastly, a lot of what people moan about rule-wise, is actually what makes the common market flow smoothly. But because they are neither in business or understand the rules, they buy whatever second-hand information catches their attention most from a source that appears authoritative.

We should finally decide whether we can make having our EU cake and eating it tenable, or not.

You mean post 2025? You seem to mention we think we're more in power than we actually are but that does lead to my point, the argument you've made before that we're more in control in EU / safer is a bit wrong in my opinion and can't find much credible basis for it. Where we agree with the EU we can assist them, where we disagree we can choose our own action so even out of EU we can assist where needed but be no less influential (doubt on the 12th hour our vote will be the crunch deciding factor to win over the EU very often).

It's not just the 'occasional' frustration though and it's all well and good playing sceptical and downplaying the concerns each time they pop up but this is kind of like how you downplayed all the tabloids as sensationalist (arguably they are but that is how the public views the events too so it's more in line with real world views and you admitted yourself its near enough daily issues). It seems when the people dealing with the issues (many conservative thinking of leaving, 145 at last count) and when there was those cologne sex attacks you've always seemed to downplay the effect of the people living in those situations which is of course easy if it's not on your door step to call everyone plebs as we've seen. Anyway I'm just saying don't keep underestimating these public and government issues just for easy money when we have a chance at renegotiations anyway. As said I'm leaning to in vote but not for lack of respect for the reasons of the out side. I don't think I ever mentioned us being a second class citizen in EU but it's still a slow, hard to turn ship with 27 other captains.

For me they alleviated a lot of my concerns with the referendum (if they actually stick to it which I doubt given shulz comments) and the econimic stability is undeniable but I pride accountability, democracy and freedom to make smart choices to local benefit. I think the EU is going to push more of our interests in the dirt within the next few generations but overall I suppose keeping the ship floating matters more. All I'm saying is don't get too full of the hype and ignore the issues on the other side. Quick question for everyone, when is it the EU are actually voting and confirming whether we get what we negotiated in the referendum? I know it's after our vote but any set date?

 

[robfosters]

I hate the way people like Macca are proclaiming that our future is about to be decided by morons. It's been said a lot on here and it's an extremely nauseating viewpoint imo.

People are putting themselves on an intellectual pedestal above others. A very narcissistic attitude. No-one eligible to vote is less qualified to vote than the man next to him.

 

[George Hincapie]

Goodness me. Lots of twisted panties in this thread; what's it going to be like by June? Will we survive?

 

[deuse]

I'm not being unduly harsh, izzop. But if we cannot make something like the EU work for us, as Out claims; how can we manage the world with both the EU and other challenges in it? Just my 2p.

I'm eager to see what comes out in the campaign. But the political In camp will be far more hard-nosed about it than I am, that's for sure.

How do you think we did it when the EU was called the common market?
You act as if it's the first time the UK has had to deal with the world.

 

[datalol-jack]

.

Ironically, I don't have much against genuine sceptics. Insanties_birth posts in volume, but he begun putting a coherent case several pages back, and there's always something constructive to read from him. OldCoals seems to be fielding questions at both camps, and actually went to an Out meeting with a friend knowledgeable on the subject of EU law to get at the truth. There are others making valid points about deprivation and poor community and town planning. I can respect that.

The trouble is the 'OUT OUT OUT OUT OMG OUT!' lot that inevitably follows. I leave them to echo-chamber for a bit, and if nobody hops on the other end of the fence, I attempt to emulate the Out's 'fervour'. They really grind my gears.

Anyway, I bring news from the Socialist Peoples' Republic of NeoGaf -- their poll is the inverse of this one. Sadly the debate and fun is lacking...

 

[George Hincapie]

Post Image is playing up - Meh!

 

[Glaucus]

I hate the way people like Macca are proclaiming that our future is about to be decided by morons. It's been said a lot on here and it's an extremely nauseating viewpoint imo.

Or you know, it's a perfectly valid stand pointing. As so much rubbish posted in thus thread. Seems the leave party literally don't have any idea about the EU and take their view point from daily mail headlines. Just look how many times echr and vacuume cleaners and the like have come up for reasons to leave.

 

[Danthus]

Of course not but at least we'd be able to spend it on what we wanted rather than building roads in Romania.

Seems a strange reason to leave then.