Poll: The EU Referendum: What Will You Vote? (New Poll)

[robgmun]

No, technically no treaty can be forced. They can just make minor modifications of no major consequence and get nations to vote again, indefinitely. Its how the EU have got they're previous treaties pushed through, its how they'll get this one done.

I really do hope that if we vote out then the EU forces us to vote again that the brits will cynically see how they're trying to push on us that we'd vote out in even greater numbers

We have a wonderful track record of going against the gain and behave in a way that's different to any other country

 

[The_Abyss]

I don't think the 'deal' really changes anything other than really get the debate started. After all, the items under discussion are really quite insignificant relative to our overall integration with the EU.

What the deal may represent is our ability to shape and direct Europe from within. We've now got decades of experience under our belt being 'in'. We do not have any recent (past two generations) of proving that we can effectively operate being 'out'. It is highly challenging to put forward a case to say that we, as a nation, are capable of operating better in or out.

So you could say the better the devil you know, and stay in. It is a known situation, and our recent history shows us how we are able to cope with it. The unknown is electing to leave - those experiences are so long ago and in a completely different era that they're simply not relevant.

My emotional response is that from a cultural perspective, Britain does not cope well being in. Even if we do put membership to our advantage and influence direction, the nation as a whole does not appreciate it. We tend to think that we're bigger and better on our own. So I think it is time for a dose of our own medicine and test that cultural and emotional belief, and opt out. Then, if nothing else, we'll learn whether or not we are capable of being a better and more productive nation with greater control over our own direction.

And if we're not or if we are, then we'll know the answer and the way ahead. At least if we're out we can stop blaming somebody else for our woes. Apart from the Chinese and all their cheap steel, of course...

 

[robfosters]

I know this poll is new, but will we have another when a deal is finalised and a referendum date set?

 

[estebanrey]

How do you expect the economies of the poorer eastern european state to support a national minimum wage?

Part of this problem stems from the fact you have very poor countries joining the EU.

Then he could argue that the principle of "free movement" is undermined?

Surely the point of it is so that skills are more easily transferable across EU nations dependent on need. If you have freedom of movement with no pan-EU minimum wage then you leave the door open for over-supply (i.e. those countries that generally pay the most) in certain sectors which only serves to push wages down rather than encourage workers with specific skills to move where they are needed.

Conversely, if you had equal wages for the same jobs across the EU, people would only move when their skills are a surplus in their host country and meet a shortfall in another.

 

[pinkpill]

regarding the Benefit debate, why couldn't they pass on the bill to the citizens state they came from like they do with the national medical care. That way the argument would not rise.

 

[estebanrey]

I keep hearing from the left wing that EU migrants are great because we haven't paid for their education yet move here at working age and start paying income tax (plus presuming they will move back home before claiming a pension for some reason).

But that begs the question, for example, why the Polish government are so opposed to any restrictions on benefits or access to employment in the UK proposals put forward?

Surely paying for their education only for them to move here and use that to pay tax to UK PLC and then return home to collect a pension from them again is bad for them?

Or could it be that the vast majority are sending a lot of their wages home, effectively pumping money out of our economy and into theirs? A Polish guy at my work has built a mansion (by UK terms) in his home town with the money he's earned here already.

 

[helpimcrap]

And the stopping benifits will affect british people too as thats the only way to get around the equality laws. So basicaly british peopel cant get in work benifits till 20

Good point about that but I don't believe they would apply exactly like that. Equality is about making reasonable adjustment and I don't know if adjust for someone who doesn't qualify?

Although the entire lot would put it against human rights of suffering etc so in other words if we stay in Europe, bend over Britain. lol

 

[Danthus]

Its also a one time break csn never be used again.

And the stopping benifits will affect british people too as thats the only way to get around the equality laws. So basicaly british peopel cant get in work benifits till 20

I thought what he actually got was a reduction in the rate of benefits paid to that of the country of origin of migrants?

 

[sports_brah]

I keep hearing from the left wing that EU migrants are great because we haven't paid for their education yet move here at working age and start paying income tax (plus presuming they will move back home before claiming a pension for some reason).

But that begs the question, for example, why the Polish government are so opposed to any restrictions on benefits or access to employment in the UK proposals put forward?

Surely paying for their education only for them to move here and use that to pay tax to UK PLC and then return home to collect a pension from them again is bad for them?

Or could it be that the vast majority are sending a lot of their wages home, effectively pumping money out of our economy and into theirs? A Polish guy at my work has built a mansion (by UK terms) in his home town with the money he's earned here already.

The problem is that we are going through a transition whereby we require less people for the same jobs and the people that are employed are increasingly skilled and capable.

The left wing ideology built from the 20th century does not adapt well to this. It can't handle the idea that some people are inherently more "useful" than the masses which is where the source of power comes from.

Bringing in such people is a short term ideal which is aimed at fufilling the "social" side of the left wing (removal of nation state borders, accelerated mixing of races to remove nationalism and identity) without considering the realistic economic outcome.

The world is not equal never has been and never will be. Any normal person wants to reduce inequality, there is an onus to do so. However this has to be tempered with the realisation there are billions of people in this position. The recent migrant problem has highlighted this. A "noble" idea quickly becomes a disaster by sheer weight of numbers.

Oslo is a changed place. It was unbelievable last time I was there...and they don't have it the worst..

 

[Cosimo]

The deal is a nice piece of paper and we'll just have to wait and see how the rest of the EU decides on its acceptance:



Still a bumpy road ahead.

 

[GAC]

got watching newsnight last night and the euro minister on there was basically saying its still being worked on, so the draft isnt even the final run at what we will be asked to vote on. talk about a shambles.

 

[scorza]

The deal is a nice piece of paper and we'll just have to wait and see how the rest of the EU decides on its acceptance:

...

Still a bumpy road ahead.

Always gives me a warm, glowing feeling inside when net-receivers of EU cash like Spain, Greece and Romania decide what net-contributors like the UK can have.

 

[The Running Man]

Id vote out, however i want the main parties to come out and advise exactly what their immigration policy would be. I suspect they woukd be equally repugnant and lazy as they are now - so what use would the referendum be?

 

[kmetek]

What benefit does EU have from UK and vice versa?

 

[deuse]

✓ No treaty change
✓ No repatriation of powers
✓ EU law remains supreme
✓ £55m handed over every day

Thanks for nothing Cameron.

 

[scorza]

What benefit does EU have from UK and vice versa?

Benefits the EU gains from the UK:
- £££

Benefits the UK gains from the EU:
- Err ... our PM gets to be in the 28-member club and supposedly influence things, not that there's much evidence of us being able to influence anything that happens in Europe.

 

[Terminal_Boy]

Always gives me a warm, glowing feeling inside when net-receivers of EU cash like Spain, Greece and Romania decide what net-contributors like the UK can have.

Bingo!

Bad enough that we support these wasters, but having them tell how to run our country is unacceptable.

 

[platypus]

after seeing "the deal" which is still to be tweaked even more it got me wondering maybe cameron isnt as pro eu as everyone thinks. maybe its been some big act and he really wants the uk to vote out hence such a wishy washy deal thats so open to interpretation its hardly changes anything.

That exact thought has crossed my mind on more than a few occasions.

 

[platypus]

Although the entire lot would put it against human rights of suffering etc so in other words if we stay in Europe, bend over Britain. lol

It's been said many times but you might have missed it: the European Court of Human Rights is nothing to do with the EU.

 

[platypus]

✓ No treaty change
✓ No repatriation of powers
✓ EU law remains supreme
✓ £55m handed over every day

Thanks for nothing Cameron.

Benefits the EU gains from the UK:
- £££

Benefits the UK gains from the EU:
- Err ... our PM gets to be in the 28-member club and supposedly influence things, not that there's much evidence of us being able to influence anything that happens in Europe.

Any more disingenuous, misleading biased gems?