Poll: The EU Referendum: What Will You Vote? (New Poll)
- Thread starter RJC
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In out shake it all about.
We'll have to put up with this hot air for almost another four months. 
Because the EU said they wouldnt do it till after a vote.
Basicaly it gives them huge leway to promise ao much and deliver so little.
Cameron has fulfiled his pledge to hold a referendum and i cant ever see another gkvernment making it a requirement/law upon themselves ro yold another
Soldato
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I just found out that if I still lived in the UK I could have voted. A bit weird that Irish nationals could vote on this.
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-32810887
Nate
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-32810887
Nate
Soldato
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Over the coming months I'll listen to the arguments and eventually come to a conclusion. Right now I'm not particular enamoured with either position and this so called “deal” is more an act of distraction than anything else to frame the arguments against.
Hohum.
Hohum.
Soldato
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Read the article linked above, it is relatively detailed.
As for the vote.
Michael Gove wants out, that might be reason enough to remain. Still unconvinced by that man is a complete and utter idiot, and any view he takes is often worth being diametrically opposed to.
I agree, there will never be another, certainly not in my life time.
![[TW]Fox](/data/man-of-honor/2009.png){kind=avatar}
Sums up my views. It matters not what he has negotiated because most of the 'no' camp* don't care anyway, they want out of the EU because they think it'll get rid of all the foreign people and we can all have nice picket fences again or whatever. Also, the EU stole our high powered hoovers.
*I say most. There are some credible reasons behind not being in the EU and anyone who has bothered to think about this and has rationally come to such a viewpoint I have no issue with.
I thought the entire point of our democratic system was that we elect people to make decisions on our behalf having considered all of the facts, many of which we as an electorate may not be party to or have sufficient understanding of.
What did we gain from the Scottish independence referendum? Nothing, the issue still hasn't gone away has it, even against the backdrop of an enormous crash in oil prices.
Perhaps there should be an entry exam and anyone who cannot demonstrate that they've spent a bit of time learning about the EU and used this knowledge to decide if they want to be in and out rather than basing views on perception from the media can't vote?
No controls on immigration.
Soldato
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Cosimo said:
Pretty much. Windbags gonna blow, tis what they do.
Well, for starters he wanted the benefit measures to extend for 13 years with each break request. This demand was upped from 4 (likely after home polls came in), but went down to 7 total with 4 years before they ramp up with contributions. He also managed to get this to apply retrospectively to existing claimants. Cameron also magicked a ban for newcomers from Universal Credit, from what I gather.
This welfare break will start immediately after the deal is ratified, but the retroactive part won't transition into effect until 2020. The indexing rules will now apply based on the cost of living in the country of origin. For child benefits, that's different -- payment at the country-of-origin rates.
His final requirement was to have a unilateral power for Westminster to reinstate this break whenever. But I don't think he got that. He said something to the tune that he did. However, I'm pretty sure he means that we will have to demonstrate a certain ratio of claimants to migration ratios -- systematic 'overload' lol -- to have the EUP re-instate the break. Some bits like indexing rules won't be extended to other member states on Czech request; so our welfare rules get the special treatment, other members remain as they are.
A working compromise. It's very similar on other points. Plenty of give and take, and a sneaky win for the City, which I think may bite us a tad later. But hey-ho, on with the proper referendum campaign!
Soldato
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Therein lies a test: if all the nasty 'types' came here to claim the affected benefits and to contribute nothing, the numbers will drop by at least 80,000 (as one would assume, Germany and other states, where the new benefit measures won't apply, will draw them); if this Kipper nonsense is a pipe dream, then it won't affect the EU economic migration in the least, just punishing those on lower incomes for a small political point score, now and again, until it expires (though as was rightly put, the child benefit measure shall remain until we revoke it).
It's messy, I grant you, but it consistently polled as the most important issue to the electorate (68% wanted some punitive measure to come out of the deal). For comparison, getting a veto for Westminster and other political options polled at or below 28%. Therefore Dave decided to be as bullish as he could on points garnering the greatest popular approval, as you do these days.
The end to free movement, or Schengen (which is under review), was never on the cards though.
Usher said:
£230 billion in trade, CAP, infrastructure investments, shared security arrangements etc. For details, grab the latest budget from Eurostat.
Soldato
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Plus the absence of all additional non-tariff barriers to trade:
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/nontariff-barrier.asp.
Our trade with the EU, and with the world via the EU's global trade treaties, is really quite cheap!
I was strongly leave before, now i'm even more so.
The offer is a farce and quite frankly, insulting. The EU needs to fail to get the reform it needs, then i'll back it fully. As it stands, it's just a club for fat bureaucrats to get even fatter on.
The offer is a farce and quite frankly, insulting. The EU needs to fail to get the reform it needs, then i'll back it fully. As it stands, it's just a club for fat bureaucrats to get even fatter on.
What negative effects have you suffered as a result of EU immigration? This is a genuine question - there appears to be huge negative sentiment against EU immigration and it would be helpful to understand if this is because people feel genuinely affected or because they don't like what they read in the paper or similar.
Soldato
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Read the article linked above, it is relatively detailed.
As for the vote.
Michael Gove wants out, that might be reason enough to remain. Still unconvinced by that man is a complete and utter idiot, and any view he takes is often worth being diametrically opposed to.
And he's probably the brightest spark in the Out camp, Carswell notwithstanding. Doubt they'll get Boris now. His thunderous eclat never came on Friday.
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