Poll: The EU Referendum: What Will You Vote? (New Poll)

Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?

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Dis86 said:
He didn't mention minimum wage. But you drive wages down by being willing to work for less.
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And why is the annual wage growth at 2% and unemployment is at an all-time, since the crash - sneaky edit lol, low? Some drive-drown. The lowest was 3.4% in 1974, I think. Guess when we joined the EU? ;0
 
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datalol-jack said:
And why is the annual wage growth at 2% and unemployment is at an all-time, since the crash - sneaky edit lol, low? Some drive-drown.
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What does unemployment being at a low have to do with driving wages down?

And please refer to the thread on here regarding the minimum wage and the growing gap between those at the lowest and highest levels of society.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25977678

https://www.rt.com/uk/191452-uk-real-wage-drop/

The poorest are getting poorer. The richest far richer.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/hea...s-worth-more-than-a-nurses-annual-salary.html
 
Dis86 said:
What does unemployment being at a low have to do with driving wages down?

And please refer to the thread on here regarding the minimum wage and the growing gap between those at the lowest and highest levels of society.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-25977678

https://www.rt.com/uk/191452-uk-real-wage-drop/

The poorest are getting poorer. The richest far richer.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/heal...al-salary.html
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I love news stories. The poorest can't get poorer than the minimum wage; which was recently set to rise even higher, and up to £9 and an hour by 2020. And yes, it skews the average since it's a lower effective increase of 1.1%, but frankly, it's again three times the inflation or more. It doesn't matter where we end up in the world or how much we gimp immigration to favour the home team: unskilled or semi-skilled labour won't net you a middle (median) income. Artificial shortages, protectionism and other nonsense will only do long-term harm.

And yes, unemployment has everything to do with it: more people in employment, more demand, more wealth, more jobs created; then wages begin to head up. Competition has dampening effects, but it cannot outstrip a healthy, growing economy, with a growing consumer spending power and confidence. That's the trick with economics: it has more than one factor, and isn't a straight line with isolated variable, working off anecdotal assumptions.

The wage growth outstripping inflation is good -- your money goes further.

Wealth distribution we can talk about, but this again conflates a global factor and a general critique of capitalism with the EU, which apparently embodies everything wrong with the world and business; and yet the standards of living have risen ridiculously postwar, and continue to crawl up, albeit not at a break-neck pace of a fresh face like China, which may still hit the middle-income trap anyway.
 
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datalol-jack said:
If it's your opinion, it's fine. But it doesn't prove your point. Just like scorza's McD story doesn't prove his conception of the 'good 'ol days'. I have many anecdotes too.
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I am in no way arsed if it proves my point or not :confused: I was just casually posting about which way I will vote and for what reason.
 
The problem for politicians is that they have to tackle problems both real and imaginary. If people believe that immigrants are driving down wages then they have to be seen to do something about it - whether there's evidence for it or not.

Same with benefits, crime, drugs...
 
datalol-jack said:
I love news stories. The poorest can't get poorer than the minimum wage; which was recently set to rise even higher, and up to £9 and an hour by 2020. And yes, it skews the average since it's a lower effective increase of 1.1%, but frankly, it's again three times the inflation or more. It doesn't matter where we end up in the world or how much we gimp immigration to favour the home team: unskilled or semi-skilled labour won't net you a middle (median) income. Artificial shortages, protectionism and other nonsense will only do long-term harm.

And yes, unemployment has everything to do with it: more people in employment, more demand, more wealth, more jobs created; then wages begin to head up. Competition has dampening effects, but it cannot outstrip a healthy, growing economy, with a growing consumer spending power and confidence. That's the trick with economics: it has more than one factor, and isn't a straight line with isolated variable, working off anecdotal assumptions.

The wage growth outstripping inflation is good -- your money goes further.

Wealth distribution we can talk about, but this again conflates a global factor and a general critique of capitalism with the EU, which apparently embodies everything wrong with the world and business; and yet the standards of living have risen ridiculously postwar, and continue to crawl up, albeit not at a break-neck pace of a fresh face like China, which may still hit the middle-income trap anyway.
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You can be poor on the lowest wage if it never rises, inflation and tax changes can easily make them redundant.
 
Tunney said:
The problem for politicians is that they have to tackle problems both real and imaginary. If people believe that immigrants are driving down wages then they have to be seen to do something about it - whether there's evidence for it or not.

Same with benefits, crime, drugs...
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Evidence based Leadership is preferable to that IMHO.
 
To all pro EU camp, it has sod all to do with immigration all though some of it is related.

The EU overrides our laws and imposes unnecessary conditions. :mad:

Who voted for the EU leaders??? :confused:

No one! So they can all **** off! :mad:
 
mw8t said:
In my industry, wages are suppressed due to eu migration. Thus my choice to vote to leave.
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I vote to stay in because in my industry immigrants are more efficient, conscientious workers who care about their work compared to lazy brits more interested in their smart phones and entitlement complex than their jobs.

I see this day in day out.
 
StriderX said:
You can be poor on the lowest wage if it never rises, inflation and tax changes can easily make them redundant.
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Exactly. If you'd bothered reading the rest of my post Data, and the thread i mentioned you'd see that the minimum wage, and that for most workers is dropping real-time despite 'rising by x%'
 
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George Hincapie said:
What proven financial benefits? It costs us £55 million per day to remain a member. What will we lose if we leave? I have seen no proper figures any where yet setting out the financial implications of either option.
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Stop quoting this Kipper gross figure carp. It has been debunked so many times even the GO talking heads are resorting to the 'billions going to Europe' vague non-stat.

Take our gross contribution, take away the rebate, divide it by 365 -- that's you figure. Than look at the figure we make from the EU, take the tax intake from that trade from the ONS, Eurostat or the treasury briefings, divide by 365 -- that's your figure again. Hmmm. Yep, we're being ripped-off -- it's a daylight bloody robbery, I tell ya!:eek:;) I linked the relevant documents and sources a few times above. If I do the maths again, I'm afraid deuse will have a seizure. :p You can also do a quick comparison: our EU trade as a ratio of the GDP, and our contribution as a ratio of our GDP. Again -- no robbery there.

And that's just the simple arithmetic which the PM will wheel out on whoever's debating him. Add to it the jobs in import/export, linked services, investment, jobs that depend on those jobs, big businesses, SME, etc. If you're generally undecided and cannot be bothered, then this stuff will emerge in the first stages of the campaign for Remain. You don't have long to wait now.

Even businesses without an EU link in their immediate network will often find themselves connected after a few degrees of separation either via wholesale, contractor or supplier.

But can we have all the benefits of the EU club without paying a penny? No. It's like me asking to use the local gym without membership or paying at the till after my free trial expires, and ripping up their terms and conditions just because I'm obviously entitled to use the facilities and the kit how I see fit, other customers be damned.
 
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