Poll: The EU Referendum: What Will You Vote?

[scorza]

(snide, nugatory comments removed)



They only lose out if our government decides they do. There's no logical linkage here.



No, it's Tory party policy.

It was also the policy of the Labour government before it. It's also the policy of every government in the world. Why do you think that is?

Making up silly strawmen doesn't help your cause. I didn't say there isn't unemployment, I said it is not impacted by immigration - as a mountain of evidence shows. Immigrants contribute to the economy, and that contribution creates new jobs. This shouldn't be in any way surprising, after all, we don't expect unemployment to increase as population increases in general so why should immigrants be different?

Do we not? If there was a significantly higher than usual number of children born in a particular year then I'd expect there to be a rise in unemployment 18 years later when they all join the workforce. You're living in cloud cuckoo land - more people adds to GDP but it reduces GDP per capita unless those people work in highly skilled, productive positions which EU migrants generally don't.

 

[deuse]

Said by someone who clearly hasn't had to go through the UK visa process. I know people who have and it's awful. It can also get really expensive.

A working visa is different from a permanent residence visa. And if people can't afford it they shouldn't be here.
You think the UK system is hard? try the USA system.

 

[Burnsy2023]

A working visa is different from a permanent residence visa. And if people can't afford it they shouldn't be here.

It's not about being able to afford it, it's about resenting paying out for bureaucracy that currently doesn't exist. Even if you earn a decent wage these are not insignificant sums.

You think the UK system is hard? try the USA system.

Comparing us with one of the worst visa systems in the world is not something we should be aiming for. Just because there are worse doesn't mean it should be a race to the bottom.

 

[Mr Jack]

It was also the policy of the Labour government before it. It's also the policy of every government in the world. Why do you think that is?

No, it wasn't and no, it isn't. The fixed target for immigration is Tory party policy.

You're living in cloud cuckoo land - more people adds to GDP but it reduces GDP per capita unless those people work in highly skilled, productive positions which EU migrants generally don't.

On average, each extra person in the economy adds enough to the economy to employ one more person which is why, as study after study shows, there is no increase in unemployment associated with immigration.

 

[robgmun]

Said by someone who clearly hasn't had to go through the UK visa process. I know people who have and it's awful. It can also get really expensive.

I'm happy that the UK visa process isn't easy, keeps the riff-raff out

But i've been to the US, China and Japan for Work and all three was a relative breeze, wasn't expensive. Not sure why us being out the EU would be terrible for us.

 

[scorza]

No, it wasn't and no, it isn't. The fixed target for immigration is Tory party policy.

Even Labour with their atrocious record on immigration imposed limits on the number of non-EU immigrants to the UK. They might not have advertised the limit but they still required a visa which is a limit. Annual non-EU migration under Labour maxed at 120k a year, a figure which is dwarfed by EU migration today.

On average, each extra person in the economy adds enough to the economy to employ one more person which is why, as study after study shows, there is no increase in unemployment associated with immigration.

That is literally impossible. Please provide one of these studies so I can laugh at it then tell you why it's wrong.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

Make it harder for people to enter legally and most of them will just enter illegally. Those people are drains on the economy. There is nothing to stop people from just not getting on the return flight when they are on 'holiday', as many people have done already. Difference is that they end up with crappy jobs, dont pay tax and sketchy employers get use to running businesses by paying workers peanuts, cash in hand. Lower pay then becomes the industry standard for the kind of jobs illegals get.

 

[Tunney]

That is literally impossible. Please provide one of these studies so I can laugh at it then tell you why it's wrong.

The first hit on Google is a study by the London School of Economics has no effect on wages or unemployment rates.

 

[Mr Jack]

Even Labour with their atrocious record on immigration imposed limits on the number of non-EU immigrants to the UK. They might not have advertised the limit but they still required a visa which is a limit. Annual non-EU migration under Labour maxed at 120k a year, a figure which is dwarfed by EU migration today.

*Sigh* You're not even capable of grasping the thread of your own argument, are you? You argued that more EU immigration inevitable leads to less non-EU migration; this is only true if government policy makes it true. It's only a zero sum game - as you claimed - if a specific number is chosen to base it around and, that, is Tory party policy.

That is literally impossible. Please provide one of these studies so I can laugh at it then tell you why it's wrong.

It's not "literally impossible"; it's how the world actually works. In the same way and for the same reasons that big countries don't have higher unemployment to small countries, adding immigrants to the working population doesn't increase unemployment. Here's the Migration Observatory's summary, you can follow some links if you like.

 

[Mr Jack]

But i've been to the US, China and Japan for Work and all three was a relative breeze, wasn't expensive. Not sure why us being out the EU would be terrible for us.

Been to "for work" or worked for an employer in that country? These are not the same thing.

 

[Hagar]

We should restart the poll again methinks, to recalibrate opinion.

Cannot believe that we are so 50:50 on this. It seems a no brainer to approve staying in.

 

[anything I don't mind]

Some good points raised.

 

[balky12]

We should restart the poll again methinks, to recalibrate opinion.

Cannot believe that we are so 50:50 on this. It seems a no brainer to approve staying in.

Why is it a no brainer? I am a firm believer that if we come out nothing will change. Trade will still be open (without tariffs), movement will be pretty much similar to it is now.

On a very basic level I disagree with another level of Government that is unelected above our own. More to it but that is a pretty simple to understand argument.

All this fear mongering of us withering a dying as a nation on our lonesome if we pulled out is wrong on so many levels.

More than happy to stay in the EU if it reverts back to a trade Union. I just feel it has got a bit big for its boots, and some countries that have gained membership in recent years are questionable.

 

[Mr Jack]

Why is it a no brainer? I am a firm believer that if we come out nothing will change. Trade will still be open (without tariffs), movement will be pretty much similar to it is now.

It might end up that way but (a) it's a hell of a risk to take and (b) that puts us with even less control over our affairs.

 

[Avenged7Fold]

I feel that leaving would, in reality, not satisfy the main reasons why the average person on the street thinks we should leave:

-UK employment
As many have said studies show immigration does not negatively impact employment

-Economy/benefits
As the studies also show that legal migrants not only pay their way but are beneficial to our economy. Unrelated to immigration is foreign investment. Many countries like the US use the UK as a gateway to trading in the EU. We could stand to lose many companies located here.

-Safety against extremists
Many extremists are local converts and the ones that aren't would still be able to get in with a bit of paperwork

-lower the number of illegal immigrants
They came here without approval. You think a stricter approval processes will make a difference? It will just create more illegals and a much higher cost of managing and admin due to stricter movement laws.


I am not an ardent supporter of staying in the EU but i feel we can only benefit from leaving if we could negotiate for a relationship with the EU that to be honest, they would never agree to at the moment. If other major countries got close to leaving and the heart of the EUs economy looked like it was about to crumble then we would have a lot more weight to throw around but i dont see how we can come out overall advantageous by leaving now.


If we leave now with the current mentality of the people, politicians will be falling over themselves to implement changes so that they can grab the 3m UKIP voters hearts. Frankly, many of those changes scare more. If we left say 10 years ago, i would imagine little would have changed depending on the terms we left on..

 

[robgmun]

Dick move

Are you ****ing kidding me? Are seriously ****ing kidding me????? I stayed away from all social media and threads on Star Wars to avoid spoilers and you ****ing put it in here.

You should be permabanned you *******

I don't know why some people take glee in spoilering for others, it's borderline psychotic

 

[Avenged7Fold]

^

Lol with absolutely no relation to the thread too, just referencing indecision. Me suspects a bit of trolling

IDC for SW but bit harsh imo

 

[Terminal_Boy]

Are you ****ing kidding me? Are seriously ****ing kidding me????? I stayed away from all social media and threads on Star Wars to avoid spoilers and you ****ing put it in here.

You should be permabanned you *******

I don't know why some people take glee in spoilering for others, it's borderline psychotic

Likewise.

Thanks for ruining my most anticipated film of 2015 for me.

 

[eatcustard]

We should restart the poll again methinks, to recalibrate opinion.

Cannot believe that we are so 50:50 on this. It seems a no brainer to approve getting out.

Fixed

 

[Danthus]

We can't discriminate against any EU resident wishing to enter our country. Is it fair that a semi skilled person coming from China is very unlikely to be able to live and work in this country when anyone from eastern Europe can? One thing I'm certain on, is we don't need the EU to meet our immigration requirements.

Going back 7 years, my A level maths teacher was unable to gain permanent residence in the UK so had to return to Australia when her visa expired. The school she worked at had great difficulty recruiting good maths teachers and we refused a great one being able to stay and work here. How is that right?

But that is an issue with UK immigration policy, not the EU.