The Expanse

PlacidCasual · 27 Jul 2021 at 10:29

My apologies, I've added a spoiler lest I further upset TV watchers

I'm on a full reread of the entire book series and I've just finished book 6 and I'm just starting book 7 Persepolis Rising. Now I love the books I think they are brilliantly written I love the changing perspective and interlinking story elements. But there is something that gets my goat about the Belters "winning" the Trade Union is just too powerful and doesn't recognise the deliberate and massive crimes the Belters committed during the war. I like the idea of the niche for the Belters and they are deserving of a stable existence but the seeming handover of life and death to the least stable and most murderous group in the setting just feels very wrong. Luckily it's not a major part of the plot and Book 7 soon moves past it.

Supernova · 27 Jul 2021 at 11:23

Jeeze, spoiler alert…

ttaskmaster · 27 Jul 2021 at 11:49

PlacidCasual said:
I'm on a full reread of the entire book series and I've just finished book 6 and I'm just starting book 7 Persepolis Rising. Now I love the books I think they are brilliantly written I love the changing perspective and interlinking story elements. But there is something that gets my goat about the Belters

"winning" the Trade Union is just too powerful and doesn't recognise the deliberate and massive crimes the Belters committed during the war. I like the idea of the niche for the Belters and they are deserving of a stable existence but the seeming handover of life and death to the least stable and most murderous group in the setting

just feels very wrong. Luckily it's not a major part of the plot and Book 7 soon moves past it.

Tell your goat not to lump every Belter in with the one group that did these things.... and also to consider which Belter is actually running the TU.
Make sense now, kopeng?

PlacidCasual · 27 Jul 2021 at 12:09

Except in both books and TV belters routinely kill inners deliberately for being inners. Also 40% of the human race is a fairly big crime and 2 TU Presidents were accessories before the fact to said crime. Got no problem with Drummer or the idea of the TU just that the balance is wrong. Feels like the Nazi's lost but Mussolini and Franco got top jobs in NATO++++

ttaskmaster · 27 Jul 2021 at 13:47

PlacidCasual said:
Except in both books and TV belters routinely kill inners deliberately for being inners.

What, and you don't think Inners do the exact same thing? How do you think this kaka felota got started?
Ere da same tim, da Inyalowda du slaves fo Beltalowda, unte push imalowda fo da edge fo peng, fore abandon imalowda to die....

No-one is a complete hero, here, not even Holden. Certainly not anyone who ends up with power, but that's just how life goes. The way it went with the Beltalowda is just good sense, so they're finally with you instead of against.

PlacidCasual · 27 Jul 2021 at 14:12

With the Inners it was more like the typical uncaring crappy-ness of corporations and Governments squashing the small guy for a buck which would include their own citizens too. Mars killed Martians testing the protomolecule, corporations used people indiscriminately as tools.

Individually and as groups the Belters show a much greater degree of hostility across the spectrum and far more targeted. Even Drummer is happy to kill to show political will.

I'm not claiming a definitive view more a personal perspective. I think the series is great just don't like that it element feels wrong.

edit: is there a belter patois translation tool for that lot by the way

ttaskmaster · 27 Jul 2021 at 16:14

It doesn't matter if it's just a small percentage of Inners doing it, though. Most Inners carry the prejudices and enjoy the benefits by which the actual perpetrators validate their perpetration. They go about their business, knowing that they're stepping on Belter necks in order to achieve this.
By contrast, many Belters moan about their persecution, but comparatively few actually take militant action.

The 'wrong' feeling regarding the TU is understandable, but many characters feel that way, including Drummer. They're all still figuring things out and establishing boundaries, but certainly they could never carry on stepping on Belters as a daily way of life.

Unte ya, deya im wa belta translator. Go tenye wa vedi ere lingojam.com.

PlacidCasual · 27 Jul 2021 at 16:36

Except most inners don't have it easy and the books and show make that clear one of the themes repeatedly made is about understanding others perspectives. Billions of people on Earth lived on Basic, no job, no prospects (50% of the population springs to mind - pop 30Bn). Bobbie's perspective on the hopelessness of life on Earth for many with no options is key to this. She recognises that she has misrepresented life on Earth as being cushy not having to work when in fact the opposite is true and they live in a state of despair.
We glimpse Baltimore which is every bid as bad as the worst of the Belt and when repeated in other cities orders of magnitudes larger than the entire Belt population. In some respects the belters have it better than billions of people on Earth and what we see is a victim culture that recognises no ones suffering but there own. Which works both ways of course.

It's ok to kill so many on Earth when statistically so many of the dead are worse off than Belters, and in no way shape or form to blame and their benefit from the structural relationship is hardly clear.

Anyway getting to the bit in book 7 where change is afoot. Not sure if the TV is covering book 7, 8 and 9.

ttaskmaster · 27 Jul 2021 at 17:22

Thing is, some Inners and a good many Earthers have hard lives, but they still get Basic and they don't have to worry about The Powers That Be taking away their food and water or stopping their air (or the ever-present threat to them from simple accidents) in order to force compliance.

And no, it's not OK to kill people on Earth, as Belters aren't stupid - They recognise that many of the things they need to survive either come directly from, or originate on, Earth. They simply want a fair share of that at a fair price, in return for the work they do.
You seem to have forgotten the great many Belters that also suffered under the Free Navy, too.

I doubt they'll cover the later books, due to the age factor.

Illuminist · 27 Jul 2021 at 18:38

ttaskmaster said:
Thing is, some Inners and a good many Earthers have hard lives, but they still get Basic and they don't have to worry about The Powers That Be taking away their food and water or stopping their air (or the ever-present threat to them from simple accidents) in order to force compliance.

And no, it's not OK to kill people on Earth, as Belters aren't stupid - They recognise that many of the things they need to survive either come directly from, or originate on, Earth. They simply want a fair share of that at a fair price, in return for the work they do.
You seem to have forgotten the great many Belters that also suffered under the Free Navy, too.

I doubt they'll cover the later books, due to the age factor.

In interviews they said they may visit the later books in a few years time when the cast is old enough to represent themselves without cheap prosthetics

Illuminist · 27 Jul 2021 at 18:39

Had the last book come out yet
Nevermind, googled it, 21st of November this year

uvarvu · 8 Oct 2021 at 18:31

Dup · 8 Oct 2021 at 19:17

Ooh December 10th, can't wait.

theone8181 · 8 Oct 2021 at 19:39

Doesn't seem that long since the last series finished (it might be, I've not checked). Is the Martian guy completely out of it now? Can't watch trailer as putting kids to bed.

VaderDSL · 8 Oct 2021 at 19:43

theone8181 said:
Doesn't seem that long since the last series finished (it might be, I've not checked). Is the Martian guy completely out of it now? Can't watch trailer as putting kids to bed.

Yeah, he’s out. Don’t want to spoil anything if people haven’t watched season 5.

MissChief · 8 Oct 2021 at 19:52

Still need to watch last season! Not sure why I never got round to it, maybe I felt season 4 was a bit flat?

VaderDSL · 8 Oct 2021 at 19:56

MissChief said:
Still need to watch last season! Not sure why I never got round to it, maybe I felt season 4 was a bit flat?

I really did not enjoy season 4 personally either, but 5 was great.

theone8181 · 8 Oct 2021 at 19:59

VaderDSL said:
Yeah, he’s out. Don’t want to spoil anything if people haven’t watched season 5.

Sorry I see, I meant due to his reputation. Wasn't sure how much of the new series was filmed before he was fired. (I've no idea how tv series work like that, wasn't sure if they started recording a series before the previous one has finished airing).

VaderDSL · 8 Oct 2021 at 20:16

theone8181 said:
Sorry I see, I meant due to his reputation. Wasn't sure how much of the new series was filmed before he was fired. (I've no idea how tv series work like that, wasn't sure if they started recording a series before the previous one has finished airing).

Without wanting to spoil it for others, I’ll hide it in a spoiler tag

Alex, the Martian, played by Cas Anvar, won’t be in season 6, due to off screen allegations his character was killed off at the end of season 5

Supernova · 8 Oct 2021 at 23:02

theone8181 said:
Doesn't seem that long since the last series finished (it might be, I've not checked).

I agree, it’s come round so fast but S5 was December 2020! This year has flown by.