The FA CUP Third Round - 7/8/9 January *** Spoilers ****

[Accendo]

He didn't go through the man because Meireles pulled out of the challenge. As I said at the time, not that I necessarily thought it was a red, we've seen reds given for far less and could have easily ended up with a red card. Very similar to my opinion on Kompany's challenge.

I just think Kompany's was more deserving of a red than Rafael's, but as you say red cards have been given for less than both and worse has gone unpunished.

I don't think Scholes' tackle is comparable to Kompany's, Scholes was frustrated and it was more than likely intentional, a deserving red. Kompany's wasn't as clear cut but the red wasn't surprising, you run a big enough risk going one foot off the ground nowadays let alone two.

 

[BaZ87]

No it wasn't. You're never going to break someone's thigh bone with a kick like that, the bone is too thick and Scholes' leg was too high to actually get any real weight behind it. Also there is no delicate tissue/ligaments around the thigh area compared to the lower leg and ankle area.

It was still an emarrassingly bad challenge from Scholes and he definitely deserved to be sent off (which he did), but the potential for injury was far less.

I didn't say he could have broken his leg, just injure him. I don't think Scholes was aiming for his thigh in particular. A little bit lower and he could have caught his knee which could have caused any number of injuries or worse, a bit higher and he could have caught him in the *******s

 

[A2M]

I quoted the post it was in reference to, it was yours, your post is almost entirely about Rooney and, the relevant pieces

As in you called directly into question how Rooney's reaction backed up how bad it is because you don't believe him to cry over every little decision.

How is that relevant? It's relevant because its the exact argument you are using for judging how bad the tackle is.

As for the rest, you clearly didn't read, did I say no teams nor my players complain to the ref? No I said lately and specifically cited one game in which I made very clear Rooney went WELL beyond ANYTHING I've seen before in terms of complaining about decisions and this being again relevant because you were suggesting he isn't one to over react.

SEriously, watch the Newcastle game if you can, Rooney flops over near a newcastle player because its at worst a bit of shoulder to shoulder, soft at that, at best there isn't any contact, and he jumps up throws his arms around, screams at the ref. He did this throughout the first half for EVERYTHING, even decisions Utd got, despite the ref being woeful in the first half and giving Utd a whole host of ridiculous decisions.

No, I've never seen anyone on my team, or any team act as much as a girl as Rooney has recently.

Now lets see if you can determine the difference between quite a nasty tackle and someone approaching the referee to moan or when players throw their arms about because of frustration. This isn't the boy who cried wolf here, it's the fact that quite a tough player was outraged at a bad tackle by an opposition player, he wasn't being petulant over a throw in.

Rooney against Newcastle was shocking as you should know and as such he gets frustrated and moans about everything, very different to someone who had just scored and put his team 1 up in a massive derby and then moaning for the sake of it.

'No Mr Rooney it wasn't a nasty tackle because you were quite petulant against Newcastle'

You might be new to it but that doesn't excuse getting personal

Gilly

 

[smit101]

Aye ESPN only

Well, that's if you discount the t'nternet

Ah right, thanks. I suppose it's against the rules to tell me where I can Internet stream it from. Any non-incriminating hints?

 

[grimm]

I didn't say he could have broken his leg, just injure him. I don't think Scholes was aiming for his thigh in particular. A little bit lower and he could have caught his knee which could have caused any number of injuries or worse, a bit higher and he could have caught him in the *******s

You are wrong to speculate where a player may or may not have been "aiming" a challenge. You can't possibly know what the player is thinking in that split second he has to react.

The fact is that if a player makes a bad decision in the split second he has to react, then he has to face the consequences of that decision. That goes for all the players/challenges that have been discussed here.

 

[Tom84]

Ignore me

 

[BaZ87]

You are wrong to speculate where a player may or may not have been "aiming" a challenge. You can't possibly know what the player is thinking in that split second he has to react.

The fact is that if a player makes a bad decision in the split second he has to react, then he has to face the consequences of that decision. That goes for all the players/challenges that have been discussed here.

If we're wrong to speculate where a player may have been aiming with a challenge and presumably any intent (and I don't think he was aiming at any area in particular) then surely we can only comment on the results of the challenge?

In which case, Scholes challenge resulted in cutting Zabaleta's thigh open. Kompany's challenge resulted in no contact whatsoever.

It was only a matter of time before Baz brought up the Rafael tackle again wasn't it

For what it's worth I found it the other month and during analyse on whether it was or wasn't a Red card all the pundits at the time was mentioning was Maxi in the build up going studs in on Rafa and whether that should have been a red card or not

Maxi done absolutely nothing wrong in the game/challenge I'm talking about

You're talking about Rafael's challenge at Anfield, which was a clear cut red card. And yes, so was Carraghers.

edit: too slow Tom

 

[A2M]

If we're wrong to speculate where a player may have been aiming with a challenge and presumably any intent (and I don't think he was aiming at any area in particular) then surely we can only comment on the results of the challenge?

In which case, Scholes challenge resulted in cutting Zabaleta's thigh open. Kompany's challenge resulted in no contact whatsoever.

Again it comes down to intent, Scholes damn well meant to catch him, he knew it Scholes knew it and the ref knew it. Kompany's tackle was nasty and could well have resulted in a nasty incident, it didn't but it still doesn't deflect from the fact that he intended to go in 2 footed and hard, hence the red card.

 

[Tom84]

edit: too slow Tom

BALZ

 

[A2M]

BALZ

No it's Baz.

 

[BaZ87]

Again it comes down to intent, Scholes damn well meant to catch him, he knew it Scholes knew it and the ref knew it. Kompany's tackle was nasty and could well have resulted in a nasty incident, it didn't but it still doesn't deflect from the fact that he intended to go in 2 footed and hard, hence the red card.

I was responding to somebody claiming we can't speculate. We can only speculate what Scholes and Kompany's intentions were.

 

[A2M]

I was responding to somebody claiming we can't speculate. We can only speculate what Scholes and Kompany's intentions were.

Not really, it's quite easy to speculate when it's late or dubious.

If someone goes in two footed (knowing full well if he doesn't win the ball cleanly, he's off) unless he is one of those whiter than white players (see Lampard) he will be off for it. Kompany is a big strong centre back in the Carragher, Vidic, Alex mould and damn well meant to leave his mark on him.

Scholes, known for being late into tackles and when he's on time he's still dirty. He 'intended' to give him a kick and that's what got them both sent off.

Moral of the story is - don't give the referee the opportunity by going in two footed.

 

[BaZ87]

Not really, it's quite easy to speculate when it's late or dubious.....

I'm not disagreeing. Again, I was responding to somebody that said we're wrong to speculate.

As I said, if we can't speculate on things like intent then the only way we can judge a challenge is the end result. Which is wrong.

Moral of the story is - don't give the referee the opportunity by going in two footed.

I agree entirely.

 

[A2M]

This discussion is going nowhere if you keep agreeing with me.

 

[Tummy]

FIFA rules state that Kompany had to be sent off

The only issue anyone can have about these decisions is that referee's across the board need to be more consistent in their punishment.

Also, you can't judge a foul on the end results, remember that a player can still commit a foul if he has won the ball, or hasn't won the ball. It's all about the manner in which the foul is committed.

 

[drunkenmaster]

Now I am quite new to these forums but one thing I have realised whilst browsing is that you talk a lot of crap to be honest.

Now lets see if you can determine the difference between quite a nasty tackle and someone approaching the referee to moan or when players throw their arms about because of frustration. This isn't the boy who cried wolf here, it's the fact that quite a tough player was outraged at a bad tackle by an opposition player, he wasn't being petulant over a throw in.

Rooney against Newcastle was shocking as you should know and as such he gets frustrated and moans about everything, very different to someone who had just scored and put his team 1 up in a massive derby and then moaning for the sake of it.

'No Mr Rooney it wasn't a nasty tackle because you were quite petulant against Newcastle'

Now who is being relevant? Certainly not you.

Try to keep up, my post wasn't even about the tackle, your post was about Rooney's reaction being bad enough to tell you how bad it was, AND that Rooney isn't one to complain. My post was entirely based on those two facts, using a recent game where Rooney beyond what I've seen anyone do before complained about every minor little thing like someone on his team had been murdered.

If you can't see the relevance there I really don't know. When I point this out to you, you suddenly go off on a completely different tangent about the tackle..... which in regards to you having a go at me over one post....... wasn't even being talked about. The post was entirely about how Rooney reacts to things.

 

[Gilly]

Where do FIFA rules state that he needed to be sent off?

 

[BaZ87]

FIFA rules state that Kompany had to be sent off

No they don't. They state that a challenge that uses excessive force is a red card and that a challenge that is reckless is a yellow card.

I posted FIFA's definitions of excessive force and reckless earlier in the thread and in my opinion, Kompany's challenge fell somewhere in between but closer to reckless.

 

[Tummy]

Where do FIFA rules state that he needed to be sent off?

It's 'serious foul play' which is punished with a red card.

Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force and endangering the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play

A player is guilty of serious foul play if he uses excessive force or britality against an opponent when challenging for the ball when it is in play

"using excessive force" means that the player has exceeded the necessary use of force and is in danger of injuring his opponent

Two footed (both feet were off the ground), lunged, and studs up. It's almost a text book red in my opinion, and clearly the opinion of the referee who sent him off.

 

[BaZ87]

He doesn't use excessive force though Tummy, which the laws state, is what changes a yellow card into a red card.