The first "proper" Kepler news Fri 17th Feb?

[Harlequin]

retail sales make a small percentage of the market - nv wont upset their oems that much, by suddenly making 100,000 cards they have in inventory, pointless.

 

[bru]

What makes you think that it would upset the OEM's they will be more than happy to snap up the next best thing, especially if it is much better and just as well priced.

remember Nvidia will also be releasing some lower end models as well, the sort of cards the OEM's will be happy to snap up.

 

[Ghøst]

Problem is kids these days can't handle proper death match games so companies don't make them. Now its all about slow realism games where you can spam lucky head shots.

Damn those pesky kids, they've ruined everything.

But seriously you're absolutely right, the glory days of PC first person shooters are long gone.

 

[Harlequin]

lol? and what of the inventory on hand? - how would ocuk react if all the high end nv cards are suddenly useless and unsaleable? the market doesnt work like that

 

[rare]

I literally couldn't be bother to wait any longer so I bought a 7970. Im looking forward to it turning up and having a play with over clocking it.

If Nvidia doesn't release its 'full' Kepler until the end of the year its a strange turn of events. I can't remember Nvidia being so under prepared, and it would have meant a very long wait from the release of the 580 until the next top of the line card.

Hopefully the 660/70 will force down 7970 prices so I can buy another

 

[drunkenmaster]

they wont put a mid range card for less money than the previous high if its faster - sales of the GTX 5xx range - all of them , will die instantly.

580gtx killed 480gtx sales, which killed 285gtx sales, which killed 9800gtx sales........ etc, etc. Since when has that every stopped a company bringing out a new and improved product, not once.

580gtx sells in very small quantities, a midrange card might sell 3-4million, potentially more if its a particularly cheap one, less if its a particularly expensive one. 5million cards sold at $350, on a core that is 360mm2 and costs 30-40% less to make than 500k sales of a $500 card that has a core 530mm2 and costs significantly more to make, well, its fairly obvious which one will make more profit.

If you put the price of the 360mm2 card at $500, you make more profit per card, but you will never in a million years sell 5million at that cost, because 5 million people simply aren't willing to spend $500 on a card.

Fact is, if Nvidia sell it at £350 and 7970/7950 sales stop, AMD drop their prices £25-50, and Nvidia sales stop, so they drop prices, then AMD drop prices, etc, etc, till you hit a point Nvidia or AMD are unwilling to drop prices further, that will be dictated by being able to make a profit on the card.

AMD aren't in this game right now as nothing comes close to their card, Nvidia usually does the "screw early buyers out of their" money game. AMD with the 5870 didn't do this, unfortunately this time they are.

 

[WingZero30]

580gtx killed 480gtx sales, which killed 285gtx sales, which killed 9800gtx sales........ etc, etc. Since when has that every stopped a company bringing out a new and improved product, not once.

580gtx sells in very small quantities, a midrange card might sell 3-4million, potentially more if its a particularly cheap one, less if its a particularly expensive one. 5million cards sold at $350, on a core that is 360mm2 and costs 30-40% less to make than 500k sales of a $500 card that has a core 530mm2 and costs significantly more to make, well, its fairly obvious which one will make more profit.

If you put the price of the 360mm2 card at $500, you make more profit per card, but you will never in a million years sell 5million at that cost, because 5 million people simply aren't willing to spend $500 on a card.

Fact is, if Nvidia sell it at £350 and 7970/7950 sales stop, AMD drop their prices £25-50, and Nvidia sales stop, so they drop prices, then AMD drop prices, etc, etc, till you hit a point Nvidia or AMD are unwilling to drop prices further, that will be dictated by being able to make a profit on the card.

AMD aren't in this game right now as nothing comes close to their card, Nvidia usually does the "screw early buyers out of their" money game. AMD with the 5870 didn't do this, unfortunately this time they are.

It seems atm AMD are selling 7970 for around £430 on average and 7950 for around £340 on average. I wonder how much further price reduction we can expect on these cards before AMD falls into break-even point. Ofcourse they won't get to the point but they would have a flexible range for the profit per 7950/7970. So if they cut sale price, then how much profit would be affected compared to what they are currently earning. Supply and demand also a big factor as usual.

 

[Harlequin]

drunkenmaster -the GTX 580 was the high end so its obvious to repalce the high end gtx 480 - if nv release a mid range card faster and cheaper than the fermi high end , then no one would buy fermi cards as kepler would be better for less money

ocuk then have stock from the gt520 upwards sitting getting dusty on shelves, same as oem`s would have redundant stock they would find hard to shift - no , nv wont do that , and since Apple have hoovered up a lot of 28nm - prices wont be cheap.

 

[Biffa]

I've always had NVIDIA cards for 15 years and have never had any problems with any of them after making informed purchases I wouldn't class myself as a fanboy but on the other hand why would I buy anything else.

Fanboys are more than likely to have owned maybe a couple of cards at most and based on their limited knowledge over a relatively short period of time will defend their corner to the death simply because that's what fanboys do.

So someone who goes for 15 years and won't buy any other brand even if it performs better and costs less isn't biased, yet someone who has tried all the brands and buys whichever one performs better and costs less is biased? Thats the basis of your argument?

Or is it because someone only buys the same brand for 15 years they aren't biased, but someone who only buys the same brand for less than that time is biased?

Heh.

 

[Bobmunkhouse]

I really hope something comes out soon....I can't bring my self to pay over £300 and also can't bring myself to by last gen stuff for same price as a year a ago....

 

[Gregster]

Personally I think this 670ti was a borked 680 that perhaps didn't quite match up performance wise to the 7970 hence the name change.

Still anythings better than an AMD/ATI/Radeon whatever you want to call it, buying one of those things does not compute lol.

You are correct in thinking that this is 'the latest rumour'

I've always had NVIDIA cards for 15 years and have never had any problems with any of them after making informed purchases I wouldn't class myself as a fanboy but on the other hand why would I buy anything else.

Fanboys are more than likely to have owned maybe a couple of cards at most and based on their limited knowledge over a relatively short period of time will defend their corner to the death simply because that's what fanboys do.

Not a fanboy but anything is better than AMD/ATI/Radeon....

Ok that makes perfect sense

 

[Ghøst]

So someone who goes for 15 years and won't buy any other brand even if it performs better and costs less isn't biased, yet someone who has tried all the brands and buys whichever one performs better and costs less is biased? Thats the basis of your argument?

Or is it because someone only buys the same brand for 15 years they aren't biased, but someone who only buys the same brand for less than that time is biased?

Heh.

Not at all, for me its about reliability, compatibility & performance, cost doesn't really come into it whether you're buying a high end card its going to be expensive whoever makes it. Until a few weeks ago Radeons were never the top performing cards but simply the poor man's substitute. For the time being they can be generally described as having higher performance but still have several glaring problems which make them an unattractive investment from my point of view.

If I'd bought a card which over the years hadn't performed as I expected, had compatibility issues with certain games, didn't overclock well or had packed in or burnt out before I was ready to replace them then of course I wouldn't still be an NVIDIA customer.

There is a big difference in someone who continues to buy the same brand because in their experience they have a proven track record & a glaring fanboy who will claim one is 'superior' to the other in every conceivable way regardless of the evidence..

Think about it in the terms of cars, Japanese car engines are virtually bulletproof, they perform well & virtually nothing ever goes wrong with them if they're well looked after. Should I now stop buying Japanese cars because there's some cheap tat from Yugoslavia that does an extra 20mph but doesn't have powersteering or anti-lock brakes?

no is the answer.

Better the devil you know, that's all

 

[Ghøst]

Incidentally this next build I'm about to put together in a few weeks time will be my first date with Intel in 15 years, so there's hope for an AMD graphics card at one point in the future once they manage to sort out all the other problems with it.

 

[555BUK]

It seems atm AMD are selling 7970 for around £430 on average and 7950 for around £340 on average. I wonder how much further price reduction we can expect on these cards before AMD falls into break-even point. Ofcourse they won't get to the point but they would have a flexible range for the profit per 7950/7970. So if they cut sale price, then how much profit would be affected compared to what they are currently earning. Supply and demand also a big factor as usual.

Production costs for the 7900's are probably a little higher than the 5800 and 6900 series cards. As the 58/6900's solf for £200-£300, it is reasonable to expect that AMD could make a small profit selling the 7950 & 7970 at ~£240 & ~£340. If the GTX670 really is launched at $300 (£240) and performance is equal to the 7950/GTX580, AMD will need to price accordingly.

Don't forget that the GTX670 will be NVidia's md-high end mainstream card. In the past these have typically launched at £150-£200, so £240 would actually be expensive according to past history. AMD's recent price hikes may make £240 seem like a bargain, but it's not really. A £160 GTX460 replacement should not really cost 50% more. That has not happended before.

 

[WingZero30]

Production costs for the 7900's are probably a little higher than the 5800 and 6900 series cards. As the 58/6900's solf for £200-£300, it is reasonable to expect that AMD could make a small profit selling the 7950 & 7970 at ~£240 & ~£340. If the GTX670 really is launched at $300 (£240) and performance is equal to the 7950/GTX580, AMD will need to price accordingly.

Don't forget that the GTX670 will be NVidia's md-high end mainstream card. In the past these have typically launched at £150-£200, so £240 would actually be expensive according to past history. AMD's recent price hikes may make £240 seem like a bargain, but it's not really. A £160 GTX460 replacement should not really cost 50% more. That has not happended before.

So it seems like AMD is currently earning a profit of around £100 extra for each7950/7970 they sell, if cost of production per 7950/7970 stays more or less same. So basically we are paying around £100 more and this is some nice large profit for AMD, due to lack of competition atm.

I hope you are right on the GTX 670 but seeing how Nvidia has been with pricing in the past, I wouldn't be as optimistic lol

 

[Phreaky]

Not at all, for me its about reliability, compatibility & performance, cost doesn't really come into it whether you're buying a high end card its going to be expensive whoever makes it. Until a few weeks ago Radeons were never the top performing cards but simply the poor man's substitute. For the time being they can be generally described as having higher performance but still have several glaring problems which make them an unattractive investment from my point of view.

If I'd bought a card which over the years hadn't performed as I expected, had compatibility issues with certain games, didn't overclock well or had packed in or burnt out before I was ready to replace them then of course I wouldn't still be an NVIDIA customer.

There is a big difference in someone who continues to buy the same brand because in their experience they have a proven track record & a glaring fanboy who will claim one is 'superior' to the other in every conceivable way regardless of the evidence..

Think about it in the terms of cars, Japanese car engines are virtually bulletproof, they perform well & virtually nothing ever goes wrong with them if they're well looked after. Should I now stop buying Japanese cars because there's some cheap tat from Yugoslavia that does an extra 20mph but doesn't have powersteering or anti-lock brakes?

no is the answer.

Better the devil you know, that's all

Thats a really bizarre analogy and actually reinforces the fact that you seem biased, not the other way around. You're basically implying AMD cards are made of balsa wood and masking tape, which seems a little unfair. Then again, if you made a representative example (Japanese mid range vs German mid range, VW etc) then your entire philosophy makes no sense at all.

I don't even care about graphics cards but I read this thread out of boredom and your whole idea is just baffling

 

[tommybhoy]

snip

You talk about how much better/reliable Nvidia cards are, talk about how AMD cards fail, then you claim this is fanboi talk which is not you, even though you wrote it?

Q. How do you know of these AMD 'traits' if you haven't used one in 15 years?

A. Fanboi:Better the devil you know!

 

[Meaker]

An unbiased person who cared not for price would have owned an HD5870 at least.

 

[stulid]

So is this thread going to get to 30+ pages before the first credible piece of info is released?

 

[tommybhoy]

Depends when Nvidia get to market, at this rate who knows!