Ah nice one. Look forward to that being rolled out. It looked great on his Strava page mind, although I watched it through a veil of bitter tears.
The Indoor Riding/ Zwift/ TrainerRoad etc. Thread
- Thread starter randomshenans
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I know the feeling - my sprint isn't great and I've already seen enough clips of me being passed on the line.
Meanwhile, about to have a gentle plod with Jaques the robopacer for a while - no sprinting required.
Exactly what I've done.Just to close the loop on this one i found a recommendation on a Zwift forum to use a Sram NX eagle 11x50 12 speed cassette - compatible with my drivetrain and with the zwift freehub.
A brief lesson in "holy crap, these things are actually made out of a lot of pieces not at all attached together in any way" later, I have smooth shifting and running all the way through the gear range
Xx1 cassette on my bike 10-52.
Nx cassette on the trainer 11-50
Still so annoying that I can't go faster than 32kph because of the chain ring.
Even my power is limited pretty much because I can max out the 32t x 11t gearing.
Shame there isn't some offset that can be applied. I just stick to ERG mode 99% of the time.
Soldato
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I can't think of the name of the app or the creator, but in the last few months, someone has been posting on https://forums.zwift.com/ about an app they are making that helps 1x chainset bike users.
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I'm still trying to get my head around the new category enforcement system in Zwift. Yesterday I bumped up my 5 minute power, resulting in Zwift increasing my zMAP and decreasing my zFTP and (just) dropping me down a category.
I gather it's because Zwift looks at the slope of your recent best efforts power curve and extrapolates it to 40 minutes to come up with zFTP (or something like that). As I hadn't done any hard 20 - 40 minute efforts for a while, bumping up the 5 minute power made the 40 minute zFTP power look worse.
Is it just me that thinks it's a bit daft that doing a PB (maybe a sign of getting stronger) can trigger being allowed to race in the category below where you ought to be?
(I did a 20km iTT race this afternoon and pushed the 20 minute power and zFTP up again - we have normality.)
I gather it's because Zwift looks at the slope of your recent best efforts power curve and extrapolates it to 40 minutes to come up with zFTP (or something like that). As I hadn't done any hard 20 - 40 minute efforts for a while, bumping up the 5 minute power made the 40 minute zFTP power look worse.
Is it just me that thinks it's a bit daft that doing a PB (maybe a sign of getting stronger) can trigger being allowed to race in the category below where you ought to be?
(I did a 20km iTT race this afternoon and pushed the 20 minute power and zFTP up again - we have normality.)
How does an increase in the 5 min power equate to a drop in FTP?
I was a pretty average C rider, had a couple of months off then did a ride well under my usual output, it then allowed me into D. Won 1 and placed top 3 a couple of times then I could no longer go in D. There was no warning or message or pop up about changes to ftp.
I was a pretty average C rider, had a couple of months off then did a ride well under my usual output, it then allowed me into D. Won 1 and placed top 3 a couple of times then I could no longer go in D. There was no warning or message or pop up about changes to ftp.
I wish they would just put in a normal ranking system in Zwift. Getting top of group C consistently then you get upgraded to B. Keep on getting last in B? Then go back down to C.
I'm debating whether to keep Trainerroad going over the summer. The alternative I think would be to ride only zone 2 inside on bad weather days for a hour or so and do free rides outside when the weather is nice, which will include intensity. Last year Wahoo Systm was too hot to do inside so ended up losing loads of fitness, so want to avoid having too much time off the bike.
I'm debating whether to keep Trainerroad going over the summer. The alternative I think would be to ride only zone 2 inside on bad weather days for a hour or so and do free rides outside when the weather is nice, which will include intensity. Last year Wahoo Systm was too hot to do inside so ended up losing loads of fitness, so want to avoid having too much time off the bike.
Just to complicate things further, this is zFTP which is used for Category Enforcement. The FTP you get from ramp tests or 95% of your best 20 minutes is separate.
I haven't got my old numbers so I'll make something up to illustrate how I think it now works.
Zwift puts you in a category based on your zMAP and zFTP figures from the last 60 days (see FAQ https://support.zwift.com/category-enforcement-faq-rJ5CQrpvc).
Let's say your best effort power over the last 60 days at 5, 12 and 20 minutes are 300W, 260W and 240W respectively. From whatever data it's got, Zwift will extrapolate that curve to 40 minutes - let's say it comes up with a zFTP of 230W.
If you then push up your 5 and 12 minute minute best efforts to 310W and 270W, Zwift's algorithm sees a steeper slope of the graph (i.e. 'sees' you tiring faster) and guesses your 40 minute zFTP is now 220W. If you were just above a category threshold because of your 230W zFTP then down you go...
If you were able to push your 20 minute best effort power up to, say, 250W, then the slope will be less steep and your zFTP might go to 230W and you'll be back in your original category again.
What I think it means is that if you're just above a category boundary, either because of your zMAP or zFTP figures, then you need to keep those figures up every 60 days or you'll go down a category. In my case, I temporarily dropped a category because I haden't done any recent 20 minute efforts (been doing longer rides), and my representative ones 'timed-out' - a 20+ minute puddle of sweat later and all was back to normal.
For someone who has genuinely got stronger and improved their 5 minute power, it seems a bit bizarrre if they could end up in a lower category.
I'm not sure what caused your drop from C to D - I guess it depends on whether it happened before or after the CE changes and whether you had any old efforts that had just 'expired' after 60 days
Yeah right, sort of makes sense what they are trying to achieve but daft when it comes to your circumstance.
A rolling 60 day average would definitely explain why I was allowed to drop. Just checked and I did 1 ride in Jan, 1 in Feb and 1 early March before getting back on 27th April. They were somewhat gentle group rides in Tour of Zwift and Tour Watopia. "Phoned them in"as they say
A rolling 60 day average would definitely explain why I was allowed to drop. Just checked and I did 1 ride in Jan, 1 in Feb and 1 early March before getting back on 27th April. They were somewhat gentle group rides in Tour of Zwift and Tour Watopia. "Phoned them in"as they say
Soldato
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I find it bizarre that zMAP is a prediction of what you can do for ~6mins, rather than using actual data.
There's also a few oddities out there where riders have an actual 40min power reading in the last 60 days on zwiftpower (so not covering all Zwift activites, everything is evaluated for zMAP and zFTP) and their zFTP is lower than the actual reading... How the flipperty flip does that work?
I've been joining the Hotchillee Gain Train on Thursday night's for the past few weeks and quite enjoying them.
Groups go off at...
Buffet Class (D+) Leader will average 2.4 w/kg (departs at 1830)
Second Class (C+) Leader average 3.1 w/kg (departs at 1834)
First Class (B+) Leader will average 3.7 w/kg (departs at 1836)
I start with the C's which is comfy, then once the B's catch up, jump on them and try to hang as long as possible. Last night was on RGV and had to bury myself on the second time up the reverse aqueduct climb to hold on to the B's. I finally let them go in the last km. You know it's been a good session when even your socks are soaking!
Groups go off at...
Buffet Class (D+) Leader will average 2.4 w/kg (departs at 1830)
Second Class (C+) Leader average 3.1 w/kg (departs at 1834)
First Class (B+) Leader will average 3.7 w/kg (departs at 1836)
I start with the C's which is comfy, then once the B's catch up, jump on them and try to hang as long as possible. Last night was on RGV and had to bury myself on the second time up the reverse aqueduct climb to hold on to the B's. I finally let them go in the last km. You know it's been a good session when even your socks are soaking!
Great work! Keep it up... Or get riding outside now the good weather is here?!Hit 1700km on Zwift in a month and a half
You're unlikely to find (m)any Peloton riders here sorry.Sorry to intrude but has anyone got a 60-day (or longer) guest pass for Peloton they can provide me with?I think the app gives you 30 as standard.
Well explained by wonko, but also worth remembering the Zwift change from FTP based categories to the CE and zMAP/zFTP based system. The Cat changes now do not equate to the same riders being in the same pens as before. Consider it a complete rework on how categorisation is done and you'll be somewhere near.
I rode hard through the winter and pushed my 20 min FTP from 3.1 to around 3.3w/kg (260W). Firmly into the bottom of Cat B after riding as a C the last few seasons - several of them sandbagging. Then through the spring continued riding and dragged that to 3.4 even borderline 3.5w/kg by being able to get my weight down a few kg (76kg by the end of ZRL Finals). So getting towards medium B and I was racing with a fairly strong B team (being one of the weaker riders) in ZRL EMEAE Open B2 coming middle of the table then 3rd in the Finals. I've continued that sort of form, but with the categorisation/CE changes I'm now back in Cat C. Quite firmly as my zFTP is now down to 253W - the way I ride & race it's unusual for me to do 20 minute+ efforts so I know I'm going nowhere without some training/results to put some into my profile.
Just finished the DiRT series. Completely different type of categorisation, using the zwiftracing.app I was in 'Gold 1'. It made for very competitive racing and I found myself towards the front lots of the time, even taking a 1st place (in points, 2nd on the road) in one of the stages (finished 5th overall in GC). I can see more and more race series using this system as it's far more intuitive and transparent than Zwifts. It's very similar to the way Rich Vale is running the splits in FRR - but that is a bit more based on a FTP value (top NP from events).
Haydn 'Roady' Jones (R3R/EVO)
(52661) Haydn 'Roady' Jones (R3R/EVO) Rider Dashboard
Amazing write up and explanation, even made me realise a few things!
Yeah unsure why they use 4-6 minutes and >40 minutes. Rather than 'simple' things like 5 min, 20 min, 45 min and 60 min.I find it bizarre that zMAP is a prediction of what you can do for ~6mins, rather than using actual data.
There's also a few oddities out there where riders have an actual 40min power reading in the last 60 days on zwiftpower (so not covering all Zwift activites, everything is evaluated for zMAP and zFTP) and their zFTP is lower than the actual reading... How the flipperty flip does that work?
My zFTP is 253W, with a zMAP at 310W. The Zwift site shows my 6 minute power effort as 310W and the 40 minute effort at 256W. VO2 51. Think they're last 60 days?
Looking at my Zwiftpower power graph, which is 90 days. 6 min is the same 310W, but my 40 min is 262W (from ZRL 21st March - 66 days ago).
Looking at Strava data power curve, for 'last 6 weeks'. 6 min is 310W the same, 40 min power is 244W (from 18th April - 38 days ago).
So I'm not even sure where the zFTP value comes from, but it is almost exactly in the middle of those other 2 values... If it was done on the classic 95% of 20 minute in the last 6 weeks I'd be at 246W from this ride on 18th April (38 days ago), but I know I'm probably capable of another ride like this which would put me up to 260W, but for the 40 mins which has me coasting downhill and I was only riding hard for 28 minutes. So that probably means I've not done any max efforts longer than 25-56 mins!?
Soldato
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Upto 2,163km now, not been on in over a week though as been outside riding everyday in this lovely weather!Great work! Keep it up... Or get riding outside now the good weather is here?!
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I think they use a graph type function to map your power now for zFTP.
i got my best result from a iTT yesterday. It was 36:30 with average of 295. My best 20 minute in that was 302W. My zFTP is 290, which doesn’t fit the usual 95% rule. Hopefully see if I can keep these numbers up. Generally, find my averages in races to be 265ish as I just can’t keep to the higher numbers after the brutal starts.
My Zwift racing category is Silver 2, but this likely reflects that I do not do that many race events and I just can’t hang with the main B pack long enough to place well.
i got my best result from a iTT yesterday. It was 36:30 with average of 295. My best 20 minute in that was 302W. My zFTP is 290, which doesn’t fit the usual 95% rule. Hopefully see if I can keep these numbers up. Generally, find my averages in races to be 265ish as I just can’t keep to the higher numbers after the brutal starts.
My Zwift racing category is Silver 2, but this likely reflects that I do not do that many race events and I just can’t hang with the main B pack long enough to place well.
Anyone tried Rouvy? Been seeing it creep into my social media fields. Gave it a go last night as I got home at 6pm for the next stage of crit club at 6:10. Turned on my Apple TV to find zwift needed a 3gig update. Installed Rouvy in the time it took to download.
Seems quite good. Activated a 2 week trial. Obviously it's photo realistic, much less populated though and not many events / races. Can't just jump on and find a group ride or race within next 20 minutes. I rode my local sunday ride which hugs the coats of the bay along Melbourne's inner city beaches which was quite surreal. They even have cars going past.
You can also jump into loads of famous courses and legendary climbs. See how it goes over next two weeks, I think some of the courses will be good but think I'll get bored of an empty world which is already a struggle for me given my timezone.
Seems quite good. Activated a 2 week trial. Obviously it's photo realistic, much less populated though and not many events / races. Can't just jump on and find a group ride or race within next 20 minutes. I rode my local sunday ride which hugs the coats of the bay along Melbourne's inner city beaches which was quite surreal. They even have cars going past.
You can also jump into loads of famous courses and legendary climbs. See how it goes over next two weeks, I think some of the courses will be good but think I'll get bored of an empty world which is already a struggle for me given my timezone.
Soldato
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I've used free trails a few times in recent years and it can be great for getting an idea of what a climb will be like in real life, but I've yet to end a trial and seriously think about ditching the monthly Zwift sub for it.
I found it really useful for what to expect when climbing Simon Warren's #89 Road To Hell (~6.9 miles, 1209 feet), as we don't have hills anything close to that big in Hampshire.
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Not sure if anyone wants to join but there is a 4 week hill climbing series that has started this week. No draft and multiple times each day of the week. It is KOM time only for ranking results. KOMs are:
Zwift KOM
Volcano KOM
Epic KOM (never sure if this is radio aswell or not)
Alpe
The last 3 will be good for getting power numbers over 6-7, 25-30 and hourish times. Quite nice not having to worry about draft and just run your own pace. Not sure ill feel that way after the longer events though.
Zwift KOM
Volcano KOM
Epic KOM (never sure if this is radio aswell or not)
Alpe
The last 3 will be good for getting power numbers over 6-7, 25-30 and hourish times. Quite nice not having to worry about draft and just run your own pace. Not sure ill feel that way after the longer events though.
Soldato
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Yep, James Bailey sorted out a GC league for it at Zwiftpower overnight too, it was apparently only ever planned to be standalone events for this trial series one https://zwiftpower.com/league.php?id=1760
Just remember to finish the route after you climb effort if you want to be in the official results and GC, only the KOM segment counts so don't bury yourself much before the beacon and after the banner.
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