The Indoor Riding/ Zwift/ TrainerRoad etc. Thread

Roady said:
I wouldn't do an FTP test with that many miles in your legs, it's not a fair representation of your Functional Threshold Power. You'll basically end up with a value too low so any training sessions you do will be too 'easy' unless you're in a similar fatigued state.

Be 'fresh' but not super fresh. I once made the mistake of doing an FTP test after around 3-4 days of rest, I'm only that rested a very small number of times in the year. I generally do my FTP tests now after 1 days rest with only normal commuting in the couple of days preceeding that rest day. I feel strong but equally I'm that 'rested' around a couple of times a month.
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Yeah, I'm not quite sure why I did the test to be honest, it was a real spare of the moment thing after climbing Fox and Leith Hills! I guess I was curious about how easy it was to gauge a power level I could sustain for 20mins, despite not having easy access to HRM data at the time, to see how it compared to the Elite E-training app's "training test" (which uses 10mins 100W warmup, then ERG mode to gradually increase power until you reach LTHR and then adjusts power over the next 6 minutes to keep heart rate literally just under LTHR).

Curiously, the three FTP figures I've got don't vary that much...
Elite "training test" 238W (it doesn't say it's an FTP test, but that figure is the average of the last 6mins after my heart rate reached 157bpm https://www.strava.com/activities/1329135925/overview)
Crickles https://cricklesorg.wordpress.com/ (free tool to allow to connect to Strava) reckons ~217.9W (based on all 20+min rides on the Direto with its built in power meter, my outdoor rides don't count as no power meter on either bike)
Zwift FTP (shorter) 219W

All very rough ballpark, given no rest days since last Thursday and the preceding 7 days with stomach bug, plus only two of my Direto rides have been an hour or longer... Will do another one after my next rest day.

Still yet to try a Zwift race, something I want to try a few times before my week trial is up while on annual leave, I guess I will look at whichever category is supposedly for ~3W/Kg mere mortals like myself.;)
 
I dunno about HR, mine always seems to be able to run quite high with no issues, could hold 200+ when I was a teenager with no issues. I found I can sit on redline up climbs on my FTP not comfortably but controlled.

Found I can sit at 170 with no dramas, once it gets over 180-185 then damage is being done and I’ll need to ease up a little bit or pop.

Isn’t the old school method 220 minus your age which gives me 188 max...
 
Does anyone use the new (ish) Sufferfest 4DP testing and training plans? I always loved the SF videos when they were standalone back in the day and I need to turbo again this year for a multi day event in May. I like the idea of a multi point power test which then suggests training to improve either your strengths or weaknessses
 
https://www.strava.com/activities/1350757797

Tough EVR B race last night. 282 NP. Two climbs of Box on London 8 route. Mixed start and I jumped into the huge front A & B group, the first climb of Box smashed things to bits and barely hung on to the second splintered group. I caught a couple unaware on the downhill (aero tuck is no match for my 50mph descending!), then as nobody was working on the flats my digs utterly decimated the group and I went up the road with a handful of others. Got caught by a few more at the base of the second climb and got dropped hard with 3-4 of them going up the road. Sat in with 2 others and ditched them over the top, chased down & caught another two before the finish and rolled through on my own. After the DQ's and a couple getting upped to A I got 3rd place! Totally unexpected after the 'finish' screen showing me in 8th. :D

https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=36601
 
I used to just ride my commutes a little easier but that was back when I had enough time to plan and structure my weeks, these days that's almost impossible so I just ride fatigued and Zwift whenever the stars align and I can fit it in. That's the current norm anyway! The only day I'll try not to race is friday, firstly because that's beer/cider/pizza night and we usually watch a film afterwards (a nice chilled & relaxed end to the week). Secondly I'll want to be be as fresh as possible for a saturday club/social ride. As I've got stronger the last last few years the saturday ride has generally been much easier for me (more social!) so I've not needed to be that rested (I used to drive to work on fridays lol). The only way I've found to get near my weekly 100 mile target was to ride 6 days a week anyway. Sunday is my rest day! :)

UTmaniac said:
Yeah, I'm not quite sure why I did the test to be honest, it was a real spare of the moment thing after climbing Fox and Leith Hills! I guess I was curious about how easy it was to gauge a power level I could sustain for 20mins, despite not having easy access to HRM data at the time, to see how it compared to the Elite E-training app's "training test" (which uses 10mins 100W warmup, then ERG mode to gradually increase power until you reach LTHR and then adjusts power over the next 6 minutes to keep heart rate literally just under LTHR).
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Judging the power for an FTP test is hard, you're right to 'try' it to get an idea. Ideally pacing with HR is probably the best until you're used to riding with power. LTHR if you have it is obviously a great start but you might find that changes from a test or two anyway.

Jump into any race as a CAT D, you should be competitive as you're strong enough and should easily have the stamina for the usual ~1 hour tempo/threshold finish of a Zwift race. Start in D and although you may find it 'easy', until you've got the hang of some racecraft to turn in a couple of high results there's not much point moving up to C. It's hard to learn racecraft when you're fighting constantly to hold a wheel, if you can close gaps and rest in small groups you'll learn much more about how the racing works. Good luck! :)

Berger said:
I dunno about HR, mine always seems to be able to run quite high with no issues, could hold 200+ when I was a teenager with no issues. I found I can sit on redline up climbs on my FTP not comfortably but controlled.

Found I can sit at 170 with no dramas, once it gets over 180-185 then damage is being done and I’ll need to ease up a little bit or pop.

Isn’t the old school method 220 minus your age which gives me 188 max...
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Similar to me. My resting is somewhere between 60 and 80 (not tested it for ages) but generally I find it over 100 as soon as I swing my leg over a top tube. Usually around 120! I'm usually riding at 140-160bpm when commuting/endurance riding and climbing at 170 with around 180 starting to really test me and usually blow up territory when out on the road. I seem to be able to ride on the turbo with a little higher and not blow up, usually racing at 170-180bpm.

The 220-age is quite old but I think for relatively active people it's a good ballpark, but for us sadists in our pain caves it's just not that accurate. It would give me 187 and I see over 190 occasionally and 185 fairly regularly. I have my max set at 190 as the zones auto set from that tend to be fairly accurate for me without too much brainpower required, I did first try them first at 180 and 200.

GSVBagpuss said:
I like the idea of a multi point power test which then suggests training to improve either your strengths or weaknessses
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Agreed, it's a well rounded metric and it will be good to see more use for it outside of Sufferfest. To be fair FTP & LTHR (and even w/kg) should be accurate for most 'training' but when looking at more specific plans to really round out fitness 4DP is perfect.
 
I was just thinking the same about tonight!

The KISS crit series has replaced the KISS europe race and I think the times of the WBR races have been pushed back a bit (I'm aiming to do the WBR 4 lap race at 9:20pm tonight - I don't remember it being that late starting before??)
 
Bit of a crazy late afternoon on Zwift...
Knocked chunks of time off my best ascent up Surrey Hills to Leith Hill summit, despite having to stop briefly, after missing my bottle cage after a mouth of fluid and consequently spilling most on the floor!
Then had fun and games with HRM signal issues, until i tried a new battery (despite Lezyne Super GPS saying it had 70% yesterday), which sorted things out after another reboot of router so game could see Mobile Link app.
Then tried a short catD race on London Flat, ~6.5 miles, where I thought the first lap was a warm-up due to what I could see in the blue banner... No idea where I finished!
Less than 10mins later, I joined another catD race (Primo Cycles Winter Ride), thinking it was 2 full laps of London Flat when it was actually 19 miles going up over Box Hill twice! It had a race leader, who wanted everyone to stay together at under 2.5W/Kg until the final entry to the tunnel, but some blasted from the off at 3+. I also missed the start by a couple of seconds due to a very late comfort break! Think I was ~40th/80 after the first lap and finished 18th, possibly first in the mini group I was in that was 15+secs off the next group further up the road.

Think I might be adjusting a bit to virtual riding, in terms of the effort I need to put in to threaten 160+BPM and get categorised climb segment times more comparable to real ones.

Still no rest day in 7 days now, but the EliteHRV app text this morning said I was fine to ride again today! Maybe because most of my Zwift rides have not been stressing my heart anything like doing hill reps on Witts Hill?

How do I now see the race results, several hours after the race? On the app, do I have to click download for each event?
 
Berger said:
Am I going mad or did there used to be decent races 8pm on a Tuesday & Thursday... can’t see anything on tonight!
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EVR and KISS normally alternated but I know KISS swapped theirs around due to the Crit series. I've no idea about EVR and the one I rode on Wednesday was the first EVR I'd seen on the ride schedule for a while.

WBR usually run a '3 lap hilly' and '4 lap flat' race with multiple races per day but I know after the Leith update the WBR Admins where having a problem with it so had to reload lots of rides. I've no idea if they rehashed any of the schedule when doing so or even if they've finished. Current schedule is a little screwed as there's been a couple of short notice maintenance windows by Zwift and some rides got shuffled around.

Phil99 said:
I was just thinking the same about tonight!

The KISS crit series has replaced the KISS europe race and I think the times of the WBR races have been pushed back a bit (I'm aiming to do the WBR 4 lap race at 9:20pm tonight - I don't remember it being that late starting before??)
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You usually find the 3 lap hilly & 4 lap flat an hour apart in sets of 2 or 3.

XaepCft.png


UTmaniac said:
Then tried a short catD race on London Flat, ~6.5 miles, where I thought the first lap was a warm-up due to what I could see in the blue banner... No idea where I finished!
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The only 'warm up' you'll generally see is while waiting at the start line, after that it tends to be GO GO GO, even though it says 'warm up' at the top. There's no neutralised start so grouping and selection generally happens then. That's why so many people talk about the starts in races! ;)

You finished 10th in D before any filtering (looks like you hadn't registered on ZP or maybe not linked your Strava?)
UTmaniac said:
Less than 10mins later, I joined another catD race (Primo Cycles Winter Ride), thinking it was 2 full laps of London Flat when it was actually 19 miles going up over Box Hill twice! It had a race leader, who wanted everyone to stay together at under 2.5W/Kg until the final entry to the tunnel, but some blasted from the off at 3+. I also missed the start by a couple of seconds due to a very late comfort break! Think I was ~40th/80 after the first lap and finished 18th, possibly first in the mini group I was in that was 15+secs off the next group further up the road.
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You finished 18th in D but as it was a training ride and not a race placing is hardly important! (feel free to use the excuse that you where using it as a training ride for poor placement in real races, I do);)

UTmaniac said:
How do I now see the race results, several hours after the race? On the app, do I have to click download for each event?
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You can see you own data in your Zwift account (also visible in ZML) and anything you've linked with Zwift (like Strava) but for actual race results you have the 'finishing' popup screen on Zwift itself (Live race result) but after racing it's Zwiftpower. You'll see 'live' ('unfiltered') results directly after the race ends, the ZP system will process and submit results to the race admin/organiser who then will apply his own filters and rules to DQ riders and verify results. He'll be looking for Strava data from public visible accounts (part of the ZP T&C) to confirm big power wattages/sprints and efforts, mainly concentrating on podium finishers and new riders.

The download on the zwift site/ZML is for a .fit so you can look at the ride data/upload somewhere else.

UTmaniac said:
Looks like I was dqed from my first race for being 3.2W/Kg!
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Naaah, it says 'REG' (registration needed). If it was power it'd read 'WKG'.
 
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I did the KISS men’s open crit instead, about 200 starters, 150 finishers. I came 92nd lol. I’d prefer ABCD races!

Start was insane, I got a split second lag about a minute or two in where I don’t know if it pauses your avatar, but when I came back I’d lost about 40 places which really did me over. It was when the bunch was stringing out and selection being made, I went from comfortable to oh noes on the back and on the rivet.

Not sure if it really made any different though, bunched up with others of about equal ability and we spent the rest of the time catching solo and double riders.

Next group was a couple of mins up the road and the winners 5 mins ahead by the end (pushing 5w/kg!).

Zwiftpower says I got a 5 min record power which is something, numbers aren’t anything to shout about but they are improving from riding semi regularly!
 
Does using the "world hack" in Zwift mess with race synchronising?

I wanted to ride Watopia today, mainly to have a ride of the Volcano, which I had not seen during my trial week. So I used the hack.

But I also entered two races today (but I kept the simple hack in place), that were both supposed to be on the London Classique course, a WBR 1-lap effort (6.4 miles) at 1235 and a 4-lap effort (17.1 miles) at 1620.

For both races, I was placed on a Watopia course and despite both races having way over 50+ entries, I saw a single rider in the first race! My overall position number was changing, but I could not see competitors.

Somehow I still placed CatC 5th of 22 in the 1-lap effort, despite doing 6.6 miles.

But the 4-lap "race" was surreal, I had to do four laps of the Watopia course to complete the race, which was 25.7 miles... Surprisingly, based on my finish time with an extra 8.6 miles while desperately trying to keep my race pace, I came last in CatC! Based on 17.1 miles of my ride, I would have come in second to last in CatC, at ~47min54secs. :D
 
Winner winner chicken dinner for me on saturday morning! :D

https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=36923
https://www.strava.com/activities/1354298497

Not that busy a race saturday morning (49 starters), but I was feeling strong. A huge group (15-20 riders?) kept together for most of the 3 laps with only a few chinese A riders going off the front which nobody had the legs to chase. I teamed up with a RaceWBR team mate riding A (Dalebout) and was mostly riding for him after having a couple of dropouts early on and having to chase back onto the group. I put various big pulls in to try and split things mostly unsuccessfully. Tried again lap 4 over the top of a slight climb but got closed down, then almost immediately had to chase a split through The Esses which I was well positioned for and teammate wasn't. After that I was totally empty but the group eased up so much on the flat before the sprint I managed to not get dropped. Nobody went early in the sprint and 600-700 to go I decided I still had a sprint in me so I kicked hard, was really surprised to see red/orange w/kg and passed several riders so kicked again. I only had 2 B riders in front of me at the finish so really chuffed with it. A friend messaged me on Facebook after congratulating me on the win, taking a look I saw one was a zPower rider and the guy who'd come past me was riding with HRM, so both DQ! :D

I jumped into a huge ride afterwards - Tour de Zwift and was riding for a couple of teammates before I realised it wasn't a race (oops!). Came across Eric Min (Zwift founder) and being my usual chatty self sent him a message, was really surprised when he responded! He was really friendly and obviously enjoying himself, soon after we hit the first real climb and he started pushing 4w/kg so interested I jumped on his wheel. He held the power and we soon moved up from 122-ish place into the top 40 both pulling hard, really good fun. I left him to it at that point and drifted back to tow/see/chat with the couple of team mates. It was a really relaxed ride, really well attended (1229 riders!) ridden as part of a series on some of the longer circuits (this was was Three Sisters).

Berger said:
Start was insane, I got a split second lag about a minute or two in where I don’t know if it pauses your avatar, but when I came back I’d lost about 40 places which really did me over. It was when the bunch was stringing out and selection being made, I went from comfortable to oh noes on the back and on the rivet.
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Brutal! Starts are totally over balanced towards strong riders and drafting. Miss the draft and you'll really struggle, I bet with the lag it just dumped you out the back as I think the proximity calculation (which determines drag) is done client side.

UTmaniac said:
Does using the "world hack" in Zwift mess with race synchronising?
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Yes, well no, it allows you to 'race' but as you're in the wrong world you'll be riding different terrain, will not see other riders and will straight away get DQ from results. There's no point doing it! :p

SDK^ said:
The new Surrey Hills is a killer - straight into a big hill 5 mins in, which is 6% average for 1.5 miles [the last 0.4 miles of it is downhill]
Overall :3,000ft climbing in 26 miles

https://www.strava.com/activities/1357414657/segments/33666727159
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I'm yet to ride it as the only times I've jumped on London last week I was racing. I'll probably be world hacking it some weekends to get elevation ridden towards my Tron.
 
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Saw your very close finish, all podium spots with same time, congrats @ Roady!

I shall have to remember to remove the hack before my next race, won't be today, first day my legs have felt sore today despite my last rest day being Thursday 4th Jan... Almost certainly down to trying to maintain a power average of ~3.2W/Kg (~240W) for that ~25 mile race in the wrong world, when I should have only done ~17! :D
 
Well done Roady!

Saturday I did some real world miles - managed 30 miles slightly lumpy at 16.9mph so that's a flag in the ground for a return to hard(er) training.
 
Complete luck! Low number of racers (49) and a bunch DQ (22) with 9 DNF.

Still good power numbers and I've seen some steady progress the past couple of weeks, in power and race results. I might actually start being competitive in some of the bigger B races! :D

CVR 3rd round later racing in bracket C so will need more tactics and teamwork than last time (my 8th place in bracket D 2 weeks ago came from racing with C's where I would've finished top 20, it's not mass start this time) ;)
 
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