The Last of Us (HBO, from Creator of Chernobyl) - No game spoilers please

That's the finale? Damn - did they run out of time/money?

I think they needed to get the guy who directs John Wick to do Joel's Rambo scene. Any time they cut away from the action and turn it into a 'dream sequence' you know it's going to be disappointing.
 
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If you strip out most of the gunplay and puzzle traversal, but keep all the in-game moments where story is being told, and add in all the cutscenes, the game is approx. 5 1/2 hours.

So this might have felt rushed for some, but without them padding out the story even more that's essentially exactly what the game was like

See here
 
People here are too "game-centric", yes the idea came from the game, but the vast majority of the viewing public i guess are like me and have no idea or could give a rats ass what happened in some video game.

It has to stand as entertainment entirely in its own right.

I agree that the pacing was all wrong. Spending an entire episode on ellie and her friend wasn't time best spent. But I guess maybe there was budget issues and so some "cheaper" stuff was used as filler.Also that last action sequence made the dozen or so targets look like they had the intelligence of some poorly programmed bots.
And as it turned out the entire journey was pointless.

But it was a different take on the "zombie" style series and for that I liked it.
 
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Bug One said:
I think they needed to get the guy who directs John Wick to do Joel's Rambo scene. Any time they cut away from the action and turn it into a 'dream sequence' you know it's going to be disappointing.
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I disagree. It was fine the way it was -

the reasons for his rampage are complicated and quite tragic, and you have to ask yourself should it really have been celebrated? Joel went far off the deep end to save Ellie. He killed tens of people, and potentially a cure for the entire human race for his own selfish reasons.
 
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Smeghead said:
I disagree. It was fine the way it was - the reasons for his rampage are complicated and quite tragic, and you have to ask yourself should it really have been celebrated? Joel went far off the deep end to save Ellie. He killed tens of people, and potentially a cure for the entire human race for his own selfish reasons.
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Selfish yes, but still an act of love. That's the great moral quandary the story leaves you with. He's a broken man in a broken world who will do anything to change his past or bring about a future that in some way gives him back what was taken. I'd imagine there's a great deal of people who would consider his actions deplorable but would still likely make the same decision if it involved a son or daughter.

I've heard the argument that the switch doesn't really get flicked until the end. That deciding to save Ellie is the only time he's ever 'murdered', but we know that's jsut not true given what other people have said about his past.
He's a monster who deserves recompense and not just for what he did to save Ellie, but for what he's done since the outbreak. Throughout the story he's being flagged as a wretched man and it's always surprised me that so many fans of the game hero worship him. He goes beyond anti hero. In some ways he's very much the villain in a world that favors the villainous. We like him because we've spent enough time alongside him to see that there's humanity and occasionally solid reasoning behind his brutality, but in a world of obvious absolutes the same could be said for almost everyone he's murdered, be it self defense or otherwise.
 
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Shame they rushed the last two episodes but other than that I thought it was absolutely excellent.
So close to the game but still great for tv, love the extra effort they put in for us original fans like some sound effects.

I don't think it was a 100% perfect but very very good indeed.
 
kinger8938 said:
Yeah, ultimately Joel's the bad guy.
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I disagree and that's the great thing about the show/game - it makes you question what you would do.

As a parent you would do ANYTHING to protect them, laying down your own life if need be. It is a huge question, 1 life to save many, but when it is your own child, it is a much more difficult question to answer. I would like to think i would give up my OWN life, but the lives of my children - no, I would go full on Joel. Another issue Joel was dealing with was that he had already lost one daughter, he wasn't going to do it again.

Also, Ellie was lied to, she was not given an option, she was told it was only tests they were doing, but they put her under with the intention of removing her cortex or whatever it was effectively killing her in the process - and with no guarantee the procedure would work.

I guess you agree with a great philosopher who once said, "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".
 
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ivrytwr3 said:
I disagree and that's the great thing about the show/game - it makes you question what you would do.

As a parent you would do ANYTHING to protect them, laying down your own life if need be. It is a huge question, 1 life to save many, but when it is your own child, it is a much more difficult question to answer. I would like to think i would give up my OWN life, but the lives of my children - no, I would go full on Joel. Another issue Joel was dealing with was that he had already lost one daughter, he wasn't going to do it again.

Also, Ellie was lied to, she was not given an option, she was told it was only tests they were doing, but they put her under with the intention of removing her cortex or whatever it was effectively killing her in the process - and with no guarantee the procedure would work.

I guess you agree with a great philosopher who once said, "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".
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100%
 
ivrytwr3 said:
I disagree and that's the great thing about the show/game - it makes you question what you would do.

As a parent you would do ANYTHING to protect them, laying down your own life if need be. It is a huge question, 1 life to save many, but when it is your own child, it is a much more difficult question to answer. I would like to think i would give up my OWN life, but the lives of my children - no, I would go full on Joel. Another issue Joel was dealing with was that he had already lost one daughter, he wasn't going to do it again.

Also, Ellie was lied to, she was not given an option, she was told it was only tests they were doing, but they put her under with the intention of removing her cortex or whatever it was effectively killing her in the process - and with no guarantee the procedure would work.

I guess you agree with a great philosopher who once said, "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few".
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That makes him human, but that still means he is 'the bad guy' ultimately.

It's love, but a destructive love.
 
Watched it last night and for some reason was on edge all the way through, odd feeling of nervousness, I guess as it's a season finale, was expecting a major event.

It was an adequate episode, not really a standout but we've had a bunch of excellent episodes so they can't always up the ante. I was satisfied enough with how it ended and look forward to the next season.

Overall a 8/10 show for me with few lows and plenty of highs.
 
It surprised me that so many people where outraged over Joels fate in the second game. As much as I dislike the game as a whole, that was one of the few things it did right. Thematically it would have been largely disingenuous for the writers NOT to kill him off in that way. As much as I enjoyed him as a character, he very much had it coming.
 
ArcticHeron said:
It surprised me that so many people where outraged over Joels fate in the second game. As much as I dislike the game as a whole, that was one of the few things it did right. Thematically it would have been largely disingenuous for the writers NOT to kill him off in that way. As much as I enjoyed him as a character, he very much had it coming.
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Again, disagree! He did what he had to to survive. He wasn't a saint, but nobody was in that world - the people, the 'official' guards etc all were on the take and just trying to survive. But in the end he was doing what any dad would be doing - protecting his family.
 
ArcticHeron said:
It surprised me that so many people where outraged over Joels fate in the second game. As much as I dislike the game as a whole, that was one of the few things it did right. Thematically it would have been largely disingenuous for the writers NOT to kill him off in that way. As much as I enjoyed him as a character, he very much had it coming.
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I agree, and found it absolutely baffling.

Most people seemed to get upset that he was killed by a girl/young woman who had muscles.

Unfortunately for Naughty dog, lots of spoilers inc Joels death leaked before the game came out, and people lapped up those out of context spoilers and prejudiced themselves towards the game. I avoided it all, completed the game and only then did I read up on the divisiveness and found it utterly without merit.
 
ivrytwr3 said:
Again, disagree! He did what he had to to survive. He wasn't a saint, but nobody was in that world - the people, the 'official' guards etc all were on the take and just trying to survive. But in the end he was doing what any dad would be doing - protecting his family.
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I'm not necessarily saying he 'deserved' to die, just that the themes across the two games meant he had to die in the way he did.
Abby was never given the choice that Joel was. Joel robbed that of her as he gunned down her father in what one could argue was pure cold blood. His actions earned their consequences, one way or another.
 
I thought it wasn't the strongest episode for sure. I wonder if being HBO they were more bound by advertising to keep it to a US hour (read: 40mins) than someone like Netflix might have. I know GoT had longer episodes though? :confused: It certainly seemed a little rushed which was a shame.

I know they're also bound by the game storyline but I get the feeling my other half didn't enjoy Joel's actions. She was on the fence for most of the series (having no interest in zombie/survival stuff) so I'd imagine when series two comes around it'll be one for me to watch on my own. Personally, I liked the shock of what he did and how it'll play out (I don't know the game's story so I'm in the dark).
 
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