The Liverpool Club Thread. **No Spoilers**

Pigeon_Killer said:
Expected to read another Liverpool player had picked up an injury on international duty when I saw this thread had been bumped.

As for Konate, no thanks. He's plagued with muscle injuries and has already missed well over a year in days with injuries, he would end up ruined like Keita.
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Especially given the pace and demands of the Premier League. Some players just can't cope with it and get injured time and time again.
 
I am sure the club will be aware of his fitness record and the causes and risks involved. At 21 and nearly 2m tall it wouldn't surprise me if some of his fitness issues are simply down to him still growing into his body. I remember Gerrard having a lot of injury problems at the start of his career which were directly linked to big growth spurts in his late teens.

Assuming it's true, it's not that surprising. When we were linked with Upamecano I remember Rory Smith saying that Konate's the one we were going for and he ticks the two boxes for what Klopp looks for in a CB, aerial dominance and pace.
 
Yea, he looked a mess vs us and Utd in the CL this season. I won't pretend to have watched much of him but he's been hyped up as the next big CB that everybody was after. There's a few shouts that Konate's meant to be a bigger talent than him only for injuries to have held him back.
 
BaZ87 said:
I am sure the club will be aware of his fitness record and the causes and risks involved. At 21 and nearly 2m tall it wouldn't surprise me if some of his fitness issues are simply down to him still growing into his body. I remember Gerrard having a lot of injury problems at the start of his career which were directly linked to big growth spurts in his late teens.

Assuming it's true, it's not that surprising. When we were linked with Upamecano I remember Rory Smith saying that Konate's the one we were going for and he ticks the two boxes for what Klopp looks for in a CB, aerial dominance and pace.
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Fun fact, i used to play 5-a-side with Rory. Decent player!
 
I can't remember where I posted it but sometime I ago I wrote something about FSG raising capital by selling a stake to group of investors headed up by Richard Scudamore and Billy Beane. That exact deal fell through but the main money man behind that group, Gerry Cardinale, has done the deal by himself through his company RedBird.

He's invested $735m for a 10% stake in FSG so that's not just Liverpool. RedBird already own numerous sports related businesses including Toulouse in France and all the reports coming out are that this investment will be used for future growth of FSG, potentially buying more sports sides in the States and most likely other European football clubs.

As I said at the time when the news first came out, this won't have direct benefits to Liverpool in the short term, although FSG having extra capital won't be a bad thing with the Anfield Road redevelopment ongoing. The long term benefits will come through bigger and more direct connections in other Leagues, places to send younger players on loan and a way around the new regulations on signing under 21 year olds post brexit. Having a big group of clubs and sports teams around the world is also likely to have its benefits when it comes to commercial and possible broadcast deals in the future too.
Martynt74 said:
Fun fact, i used to play 5-a-side with Rory. Decent player!
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And a very good journalist, although I did once upset him on twitter by saying he looked like a young Martin Samuel.
 
reports that we will be signing Kabak at end of season

if it's at the original £18m then I'm not convinced at all, have also seen 9m quoted and I suppose as backup it may just be worth it at that
 
I'd be very surprised if we signed him, certainly for anything like £18m. My instinct is the club weren't happy with the Konate reports coming out, whether true or not, and might be feeding this to the press themselves.
 
Really don't think he has been as terrible as some have made out. I'm not saying he has been great either just done a job.

He won't be first choice when Gomez/Dijk are fit. I think as a back up he is fine.

I don't think we will spend much at all come summer window anyway
 
I don't think he's been bad at all since Fabinho has gone into midfield. He's also playing with a fridge next to him, is only 20 and been thrown in at the deep end. If we can get a deal done for 10 mil then we'd be foolish to not take it
 
There's so much overcompensating going on here. Yes Phillips is worse and yes he's young but that doesn't make Kabak any good - in pretty much every game he's played he's made a mistake. Not much got said about his part in Villa's goal yesterday because the focus was on Alisson but watch Kabak - he makes the first challenge then just stops, allowing Watkins inside him. He lacks basic awareness that a CB needs and like Phillips (although not so bad) he gets bamboozled by any long ball that goes over his head - it's like watching two headless chickens every time a side knocks a ball over the top.

I've not seen anything from him to suggest he'll be good enough to play for us long term and if we are to sign a CB this summer, we need a far better one than him and I can't see a scenario where we sign two.
 
Kabak can only be a fifth choice CB in a team that plays 60+ matches a season, getting the occasional cup game and the odd PL game against lesser teams to rest players for CL or more important league games. We need to sign one world class CB in the summer, or two if Matip ends up leaving. I'm not saying Kabak will never be a world class CB, he may very well improve his game to that level, but he's not that right now and should not be our third choice CB.

BaZ87 said:
I've not seen anything from him to suggest he'll be good enough to play for us long term and if we are to sign a CB this summer, we need a far better one than him and I can't see a scenario where we sign two.
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There's no "if" really, if our directors have two brain cells they'll know that we NEED to sign a reliable CB. All our three first choice CBs will be coming back from season-long, often career threatening/ending injuries, and two of them will be 30 years old next season. Do we really expect VVD/Gomez to play ~30 matches in 100 days after coming back from these injuries between August and January? If so, they live in fantasy.
 
I said if but I'm sure we'll sign one and the decision won't be one the directors make. Whoever we sign and if we sign x is the decision of two people, Michael Edwards and Klopp.

As for how VVD, Gomez & Matip come back, I'm not too sure about Gomez's injury as I can't recall too many players suffering from it in the past but the general view of docs & physio's re VVD & ACL's is that the vast majority of players get back to 100% within 9 and 12 months and those that do suffer setbacks are the ones that rush back. Obviously there are no guarantees and we have to go into the season with 4 senior CB's but signing Kabak as a 5th seems a waste of money to me. If you're 5th choice CB is somebody that's not going to be good enough then save £10m and keep Phillips or Davies, one of them plus Hendo & Fab are enough emergency cover.

Now I've said that all 4 senior CB's will break their leg in the opening game of next season.
 
Lets be honest, the clubs needs a massive rebuild over the next few transfer windows if we want to compete for the title again.

As HACO mentioned above, there's no guarantee VVD or Gomez will return to the level they were playing at and Matip can't be relied on for more than a few games at a time. Klopp's historical left his defence alone, when fit, so a consistent back 5 is a must.

Of our entire midfield, Ox looks finished, Keita's been a catastrophe and needs moving on, Milner's close to collecting his bus pass, Shaqiri's too inconsistent and Gini looks likely to leave. I can honestly see at least 3, possibly 4, moving on in the summer which leaves us very thin in midfield.

Finally our attack. Unless Origi's a far better CB than forward he'll be moved on, Firmino has been on the decline for a while and no longer can be considered a first team player and Mane's slowly becoming a concern. Realistically, I can't see Klopp moving either on this summer but when a team relies solely on the front three for goals and only one, two when Jota plays, is scoring it's cause for concern.
 
BaZ87 said:
I said if but I'm sure we'll sign one and the decision won't be one the directors make. Whoever we sign and if we sign x is the decision of two people, Michael Edwards and Klopp.

As for how VVD, Gomez & Matip come back, I'm not too sure about Gomez's injury as I can't recall too many players suffering from it in the past but the general view of docs & physio's re VVD & ACL's is that the vast majority of players get back to 100% within 9 and 12 months and those that do suffer setbacks are the ones that rush back. Obviously there are no guarantees and we have to go into the season with 4 senior CB's but signing Kabak as a 5th seems a waste of money to me. If you're 5th choice CB is somebody that's not going to be good enough then save £10m and keep Phillips or Davies, one of them plus Hendo & Fab are enough emergency cover.

Now I've said that all 4 senior CB's will break their leg in the opening game of next season.
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I don't think vast majority of players return to 100% after ACL injuries, and it's more than just being rushed back or not, some bodies just don't respond well to reconstruction and some does very well, this happens in all sports. Some players return to 100% form, but never the same fitness, or the other way around, some players lose pace (more common with hamstring grafts, VVD had patella tendon graft) and others won't, and the older the player is the more likely that they won't return to the same level of both form and fitness. That knee will need maintenance exercises permanently and will need more time to recover between matches. So it's just a fact that VVD won't be able to play the same kind of minutes that he did before his injury, and he's going into his 30s now as well. There's also a very good chance that VVD will be rushed back for the Euros.

As for torn patella tendon, it's rare in football but common in other sports, and it's as bad as an ACL injury in terms of long-term effects, and Gomez already had an ACL injury on the same knee, with part of that tendon already torn out to create the ACL graft.

I'm only saying all of this to just say, there are big uncertainties after these injuries and we need better backup CBs and we can't rely on players who are just returning from major injuries to get back to their pre injury levels (form, fitness, durability, stamina, etc) immediately.

Pigeon_Killer said:
Lets be honest, the clubs needs a massive rebuild over the next few transfer windows if we want to compete for the title again.

As HACO mentioned above, there's no guarantee VVD or Gomez will return to the level they were playing at and Matip can't be relied on for more than a few games at a time. Klopp's historical left his defence alone, when fit, so a consistent back 5 is a must.

Of our entire midfield, Ox looks finished, Keita's been a catastrophe and needs moving on, Milner's close to collecting his bus pass, Shaqiri's too inconsistent and Gini looks likely to leave. I can honestly see at least 3, possibly 4, moving on in the summer which leaves us very thin in midfield.

Finally our attack. Unless Origi's a far better CB than forward he'll be moved on, Firmino has been on the decline for a while and no longer can be considered a first team player and Mane's slowly becoming a concern. Realistically, I can't see Klopp moving either on this summer but when a team relies solely on the front three for goals and only one, two when Jota plays, is scoring it's cause for concern.
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Couldn't agree more.

Midfield needs a complete rebuilding. With Gini leaving, Keita an Ox unreliable, Milner 35, Henderson 31, Thiago 30 next season, we'll need more youth, pace, energy and combative power there. Maybe TAA can play very well in midfield (he's done it before), but then we'll need a right back.

Origi needs to go first, Bobby and Mane will need to be moved on in the next couple of years, and we'll need to sign younger wingers, a false 9 or an attacking midfielder and a top goal scoring striker.
 
I’d like to see Trent as a proper winger or a right midfielder instead of a full back, he could do very well there and let’s be honest his defending has never been brilliant.

Ox hasn’t been the same since his injury really, Keita just hasn’t had the game time to settle at any point. I agree we really need some younger midfielders as well. If we’re not careful and do business soon we could end up with half the squad at 33 and needing to spend £300million to bring in five or six players which I doubt FSG would sanction.
 
HACO said:
I don't think vast majority of players return to 100% after ACL injuries....
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I'm not a doctor but there were a number of articles from physios and doctors in regards to VVD & ACL's and the general view was that better surgery and treatment these days means most players do return to 100%. I'm pretty sure I wrote something on here regarding the comments of one particular doctor who said the biggest obstacle players face now is psychological than physical - by not trusting their knee they go into challenges half hearted and as a result are more likely to pick up injuries.

And iinm Gomez's done his right ACL and this injury was to his left knee. But I agree with the general point, we have to go into next season with 4 senior CB's plus a few emergency options.

Regarding talk of a rebuild, I think that's a little ott. We've been absolutely cursed with injuries this season, far worse than I've ever seen before but other than two major injuries to VVD & Gomez, our biggest issues have been a result of the unreliablity, both fitness and form, of fringe players. Players like Origi, Ox, Shaq & Keita were hardly pivotal to our success in recent years but this season, due to the nature of the season and our fitness issues, we've needed them and they've either not been fit or they've not performed. The average age of the midfield and front 3 needs bringing down but that will naturally happen with new signings coming in and older players slowly being phased out. If I were to guess, I'd say we're going to sign a CB, a midfielder to replace Gini and sign another versatile forward to replace Origi, all 3 will likely be sub 24 years old. Other signings will depend on outgoings but I suspect the club would like to move on at least one of Shaq, Ox or Keita (the latter being least likely to leave) and signing another versatile midfielder.
 
Klopp did a fantastic job of building a squad of players capable of playing the style of football he wanted over his first few seasons but the squad peaked last season and is now on the decline imo. Injuries haven't helped, but the age of the squad and the style of football required of them will have also put a massive mental and physical strain on the players and it's not one many could sustain over an extended period of time without a big drop off. It's why so many title winners maitain you constantly have to refrsh your squsd to maintain

I don't think it'll be a one hit rebuild this summer but a gradual rebuild over the next 3 transfer windows with a view of challenging for the title again during the 22/23 season. I do think we'll see a lot of players leave this summer though, mainly those that'll be out of contract, are constantly injured/can't be relied on or are currently out on loan. Other than Elliot and possibly Minamino, I don't think many of them have a future at the club sadly.
 
Just read we've been linked with Ousmane Dembele. Is our medical facility big enough for all of these crocks?

I'm hoping that one day we'll be linked with a player that's capable of playing a full season rather than players that need limb transplants to function properly.
 
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