The Liverpool Club Thread. **No Spoilers**

BaZ87 said:
The issue I have with posts like this is you have this assumption that spending money equals strengthening. It is of course why Chelsea have done so well in the last 2 years.....oh wait. Spending money on the wrong players is easy but it won't improve the side, I'm sorry to tell you this. It would be far easier for the club to go out and spend £40m on somebody the recruitment team don't think is good enough than not to spend at all - it would shut you and the 14 year olds on twitter up for a start but we'd have blown that money and it would make actually improving the side harder in the long run.
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Yes, spending money doesn’t necessarily means strengthening. I didn’t say we need to spend big, I didn’t even say we need to spend anything, I said we need improvements and signings if we are to compete for the title.

BaZ87 said:
You talk about us pursuing alternatives to Zubimendi but I assume you understand that suitable alternatives need to be available? Or are we coming back to my first point where you just want us to sign anybody because you believe that buying the wrong player somehow helps? You mention a lack of ambition but if Zubimendi doesn't **** the bed at the last minute would the club have shown ambition?
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Alternatives are always available, as if only one DM in the whole world can play for us. If in 3 consecutive seasons we fail to get our top DM targets and don’t have any alternatives apart from a short term band aid, then that’s a failure in recruitment.

BaZ87 said:
The club are clearly trying to improve the side but they also have a very different approach to what you want and Chelsea have shown which is just to sign anybody and everybody. This isn't something new. It's the same approach the club have had for 10 years - if they're not convinced they have the right, long term option then they won't spend for the sake of it unless they're desperate. Every summer the same fans act shocked and offended by this despite the fact that this transfer strategy has coincided with the clubs most successful period in modern history.
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It’s the approach that cost us heavily when it comes to defensive midfield, forced us to replace everyone in midfield in one year, and was definitely the reason we missed out on a champions league qualification. Yes we’ve been relatively successful in modern history, that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t criticise failures when they happen.

And again, insisting on a need for improvements doesn’t mean I’m asking for Chelsea’s transfer policy. I never said we should be spending big (by £ or number of players). This, more than anything, seems to be you externalising your own ideas and isn’t addressing anything I said.

C Kent said:
Sounds like you want us to spend money for the sake of spending money. How's that worked out for the likes of Chelsea or man utd in the past?
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No, I want us to improve the squad because I know (and you’d probably agree) the current squad isn’t good enough to win the PL or UCL. I never said a single word about spending money.
 
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HACO said:
Yes, spending money doesn’t necessarily means strengthening. I didn’t say we need to spend big, I said we need improvements and signings if we are to compete for the title.
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If spending doesn't necessarily mean strengthening then how did you determine that all our rivals have strengthened? You've clearly drawn the conclusion that spending = strengthening.
HACO said:
Alternatives are always available, as if only one DM in the whole world can play for us. If in 3 consecutive seasons we fail to get our top DM targets and don’t have any alternatives apart from a short term band aid, then that’s a failure in recruitment.
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It's easy to say there are alternatives but name them. I'm sure there is more than one DM around that can do what we need but you need to identify them, they need to be available and affordable. I have no doubt the club have a list of a dozen+ names for every position in the eventuality that they need to sign somebody there. Whether the club ultimately follow through in making those signings will be determined by a combination of factors - the quality and number of players we have in that position, the quality of the potential replacements, their potential to improve and the price.

Just scrolling through transfermarkt's most valuable DM's in the world and you'll see the that outside 2-3 players, that are clearly unattainable, the's very little obvious top quality players out there. You've got a choice of fairly mediocre players (many of whom would cost a bomb) who you hope can do a job until you find somebody better or taking gambles on youth.

With Endo + the change of system and playing 2 of Mac Allister, Jones, Gravenberch & Szobo deeper, I'm not sure the club are in a desperate position where they need to go out and spend £60m on Cheick Doucoure from Palace. I think we're in a position where it makes better sense to wait until we can find the long term option rather than accept 2nd rate players or gamble on somebody.
HACO said:
It’s the approach that cost us heavily when it comes to defensive midfield, forced us to replace everyone in midfield in one year, and was definitely the reason we missed out on a champions league qualification. Yes we’ve been relatively successful in modern history, that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t criticise failures when they happen.

And again, insisting on a need for improvements doesn’t mean I’m asking for Chelsea’s transfer policy. I never said we should be spending big (by £ or number of players). This, more than anything, seems to be you externalising your own ideas and isn’t addressing anything I said.
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I've never said the approach is perfect and have numerous times over the years said we've missed out on players due to being overly cautious but you cannot measure the success of the strategy the club have based on individual cases but based on what they've done over time.

You say we missed out on CL qualification the other year due to this approach, I say it resulted in us signing VVD & Alisson which contributed to us winning the CL and PL. I'd bet my left nut that you (I was too btw) were saying we had to sign a CB when we missed out on VVD in summer 2017. Had the club listened to us then maybe we'd have ended up with Jonny Evans and very likely the VVD signing wouldn't have happened 6 months later.

As I said above, it's not perfect but it's a strategy that has (on the whole) served the club well and I can never get my head around supporters getting wound up that the club aren't buying players that they clearly don't feel are good enough.
 
BaZ87 said:
If spending doesn't necessarily mean strengthening then how did you determine that all our rivals have strengthened? You've clearly drawn the conclusion that spending = strengthening.
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Because they signed players in areas that ended improvement, and I’m talking about City and Arsenal. Neither spent big money or brought in a big number, and didn’t bring in superstars, but added players where they needed them.

I wasn’t expecting us to break the bank or go hunkers, but being the only team not onlu in the PL but in all top 5 leagues who hasn’t made a single signing isn’t about strategy or philosophy, or desire to only sign the absolute best, it’s about lack of ambition, or maybe not trusting Slot enough to do more risky deals. Either way, can’t say I’m impressed.

BaZ87 said:
It's easy to say there are alternatives but name them. I'm sure there is more than one DM around that can do what we need but you need to identify them, they need to be available and affordable. I have no doubt the club have a list of a dozen+ names for every position in the eventuality that they need to sign somebody there. Whether the club ultimately follow through in making those signings will be determined by a combination of factors - the quality and number of players we have in that position, the quality of the potential replacements, their potential to improve and the price.

Just scrolling through transfermarkt's most valuable DM's in the world and you'll see the that outside 2-3 players, that are clearly unattainable, the's very little obvious top quality players out there. You've got a choice of fairly mediocre players (many of whom would cost a bomb) who you hope can do a job until you find somebody better or taking gambles on youth.
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I don’t know, I’m sure there are names, neither of us know them, but for whatever reason, they’ve decided it’s either one player or nobody.

BaZ87 said:
With Endo + the change of system and playing 2 of Mac Allister, Jones, Gravenberch & Szobo deeper, I'm not sure the club are in a desperate position where they need to go out and spend £60m on Cheick Doucoure from Palace. I think we're in a position where it makes better sense to wait until we can find the long term option rather than accept 2nd rate players or gamble on somebody.
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Don’t disagree, if the peak of our ambition is top 4 with a bit of luck, then that’s all fine. I think without any signing we probably have a chance to have a go at being top 4 again. We’re not gonna win the league though, unless we become serious again. And Doucoure would probably be a bad choice anyway.

BaZ87 said:
I've never said the approach is perfect and have numerous times over the years said we've missed out on players due to being overly cautious but you cannot measure the success of the strategy the club have based on individual cases but based on what they've done over time.

You say we missed out on CL qualification the other year due to this approach, I say it resulted in us signing VVD & Alisson which contributed to us winning the CL and PL. I'd bet my left nut that you (I was too btw) were saying we had to sign a CB when we missed out on VVD in summer 2017. Had the club listened to us then maybe we'd have ended up with Jonny Evans and very likely the VVD signing wouldn't have happened 6 months later.

As I said above, it's not perfect but it's a strategy that has (on the whole) served the club well and I can never get my head around supporters getting wound up that the club aren't buying players that they clearly don't feel are good enough.
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The strategy has changed. Yes we didn’t sign a CB in summer 2017 after missing out on VVD and then got him 6 months later.

We’ve been trying to get a DM for three years now. When we missed out on Tchouaméni in 2022, we didn’t get anyone 6 months later. Now imagine if we hadn’t signed VVD or another top class CB in 2018 and 2019 either. That’s our current strategy. We wouldn’t have won the UCL or the PL if back then we applied our current strategy to VVD.
 
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HACO said:
Because they signed players in areas that ended improvement, and I’m talking about City and Arsenal. Neither spent big money or brought in a big number, and didn’t bring in superstars, but added players where they needed them.
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City have signed one relatively unproven attacker and let a far better one (on paper at least) leave - how have they strengthened or added players where they need?
HACO said:
I don’t know, I’m sure there are names, neither of us know them, but for whatever reason, they’ve decided it’s either one player or nobody.
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No, they've decided (if it proves to be the case) that there was only one attainable long term solution for the role that they were convinced by. Had there been others out there (and the fact that you nor I can think of anybody, shows you how slim the pickings are) then they would have had other options that they'd have moved on to. Very quickly off the top of my head, when we signed Wijnaldum he was signed after we couldn't do a deal for the Polish midfielder at Udinese(?). If there were other options the club believed could do the job then they'd move for them, I promise you they're not just doing this to wind you up.
HACO said:
The strategy has changed. Yes we didn’t sign a CB in summer 2017 after missing out on VVD and then got him 6 months later.

We’ve been trying to get a DM for three years now. When we missed out on Tchouaméni in 2022, we didn’t get anyone 6 months later. Now imagine if we hadn’t signed VVD or another top class CB in 2018 and 2019 either. That’s our current strategy. We wouldn’t have won the UCL or the PL if back then we applied our current strategy to VVD.
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I don't think you understand what the strategy is by what you've said. Yes we've been trying to sign a DM for 2 years (not 3) but we did sign one last season :confused: The issue is you want a top class one (I do too) but fail to acknowledge that there isn't one available. So instead you're going to complain that club either won't offer £1bn for Rodri at City or sign a Unicorn.

You want the club to go out and spend £50m on some foreign name that all the plums on twitter will tell you is amazing and when it turns out he's not, you'll want the club to do the same in 12 months. The club doesn't work like that. After the Endo signing we're no longer in a situation where we're desperate so they're not just going to gamble on somebody or settle for 2nd rate players. If they can't sign the right player then they won't sign anybody and this is the same strategy that resulted in us signing VVD, Alisson, Robertson and Fabinho.

Yes it just so happens that we only had to wait 6 months before we finally landed VVD however we needed a CB before that too and were desperate when Klopp binned Sakho, so much so that we signed an Endo to tide us over rather than spend £30m on Jonny Evans. We spent 12 months with Milner at LB before we signed Robertson. We were after a DM for at least 1 if not 2 summers before we signed Fabinho. As I've said, it's not perfect and we are too cautious at times but the way we work hasn't changed.

Anyway we're just going round in circles so I'll leave it there.
 
Quansah's signed a new deal and reports last night suggest that talks over a new deal for Ibou are happening too. Not the big 3 contract renewals we're hoping to hear about but important ones never the less. Quansah's got a massive future ahead of him and the sky's the ceiling for Ibou. He had a little dip at the end of last season but at his best he's as good as anybody about. His physical attributes (possibly even greater than VVD's) mean he can dominate almost every forward he comes up against 1v1 - if he can improve his concentration at times (and score a few more goals) then he can be the long term successor to VVD for us.
 
News this morning that Alisson's going to be out until after the November International break. The worst part of that news is finding out there's another ****ing International break!

On a more serious note, this injury will now mean he'd have missed around 20 games with muscle injuries since the start of last season. That's impressive for a keeper.
 
Think we might look to cash in on him come the end of the season with Marmalade coming in as I highly doubt we will offer him a new contract given he seems to be made of jelly since turning 30
 
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