The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power (Prime)

[Mr Jack]

Only in @Darujhistan head

They have to rewatch it a lot to find all the things they hate.

 

[Mint8]

Have to admit I am finding it still very slow and dare I say..boring.

 

[Vern1961]

At times it seems as if they were trying to do Skyrim, the TV show rather than the Tolkien world.

I've mislaid the little encyclopedia of Middle Earth I bought many years ago, but as others have said the timing of various events seems to be completely mis-mashed.

The other problem is, for people like my missus who have never read the books, they start throwing names like Morgoth, Elendil, Anarion etc. around without any context or explanation it becomes a bit abstract. As it is, I'm really going to have to force myself to re-read the LOTR appendices and the Silmarillion.

As regards the acting style, well it makes Viggo in the movies, "Let's go hunt some orc", positively restrained and archaic. I know they can't go all out heavy Tolkien prose but the whole thing lacks a bit of gravitas.

 

[apatia77]

Really like the last episode and looking forward to watching some more of it.

 

[fez]

The other problem is, for people like my missus who have never read the books, they start throwing names like Morgoth, Elendil, Anarion etc. around without any context or explanation it becomes a bit abstract. As it is, I'm really going to have to force myself to re-read the LOTR appendices and the Silmarillion.

Some of these names probably don't need to be explained until they become relevant to the story for newcomers. Its only because you know who they are that it has special significance. Non Tolkien fans will just find out as the show progresses. Maybe Morgoth would have been a good one to do a quite 20s expo on though.

 

[casper_uk]

Yep, I'm just have higher standards and know when I'm watching crap.

I'll continue to watch whatever I like and post my opinions if you don't like them don't repsond. It's easy. If you don't like people criticsing your precious shows just don't read the posts and have a happier life! Notice I am not trying to stop people I disagree with commenting - that's what debate etc is all about...

They're not completely different types of shows at all, they're genre fiction set ina fantasy World, they couldn't have more in common. To say they're different types of shows is absolutely ludirous and yet another way to stop comparions and criticsim of the very much inferior ROP.

Would you like me to fetch the discarded toys from your handbag? You can of course watch what you like, and comment on what you like. It just seems you are getting very angry about what is after all, a TV show. That isn't healthy. Of course they are completely different types of shows?

House of the Dragon and The Rings of Power are different enough to coexist

House of the Dragon and The Rings of Power have things in common, but ultimately are two very different sorts of series. It's a good time to be a TV fan.

winteriscoming.net

"It’s also true that both shows are in the fantasy genre. But you can only call these series “similar” in the broadest of strokes"

You can watch both House of the Dragon and The Rings of Power (and love it)

"The upshot of all this is that I never once thought of House of the Dragon while watching The Rings of Power, or vice versa. The shows feel worlds apart, even if they both feature people with swords on horses"

"So basically, while it’s natural to want to compare these two series, they’re very different beasts and I think people are going to enjoy both for what they are once they’re both out. There isn’t one winner here. There aren’t two. There are millions, and you’re one of them"

LOTR: The Rings of Power proves House of the Dragon comparisons are pointless

Is Middle-earth's return middle of the road?

www.digitalspy.com

"Except, when you really break it down, the two shows aren't actually competing at all. Yes, they both occupy that same epic, slow-burn fantasy space, but Rings of Power leans far more into glossy world-building and old-fashioned fights between good and evil. House of the Dragon is instead more concerned with grimy kingdom-pillaging and old-fashioned struggles between incest and tradition.

Both are epic and thrilling and surprising in their own way, but with their different approaches to fantasy, not to mention those different air days, there's more than enough room for Middle-earth and Westeros alike. And that's lucky for us, because neither of them will be ending any time soon"

Seems people agree that they are different types of shows...imagine that. Not so ludicrous after all it seems

 

[casper_uk]

Thousands of years is a lot of artistic licence! That's actually one of the issues, the various events taking place all took place at different times in the timeline. Some were early second age, some middle. The arrival of the Numenoreans for example should be late second but that looks to be on the cards already!

I really don't mind if they tweak the timing of things. They aren't going to have the show spread out over 1000's of years, as it wouldn't work for a TV show. As long as it make sense for the show, and helps to develope the story, I can live with some artistic license. I can understand where die hard fans are coming from, but with a TV show, it could never work, unless they make changes here and there.

 

[dannyjo22]

Not a bit interested in LOTR lore, I enjoyed the Fellowship trilogy and I'm enjoying this despite all the haters. It's not like the pace of the films was quick and the book certainly wasn't.

 

[Darujhistan]

Would you like me to fetch the discarded toys from your handbag? You can of course watch what you like, and comment on what you like. It just seems you are getting very angry about what is after all, a TV show. That isn't healthy. Of course they are completely different types of shows?

House of the Dragon and The Rings of Power are different enough to coexist

House of the Dragon and The Rings of Power have things in common, but ultimately are two very different sorts of series. It's a good time to be a TV fan.

winteriscoming.net

LOTR: The Rings of Power proves House of the Dragon comparisons are pointless

Is Middle-earth's return middle of the road?

www.digitalspy.com

Seems people agree that they are different types of shows...imagine that. Not so ludicrous after all it seems

There's no need to be insulting just becaue you don't have anything substantive to say. So it's not really me who is all up in his feelings is it?

I'm perfectly calm because I know I am right about this show. It also wasn't me trying to stop others posting opinions, but you knew that...

 

[Darujhistan]

I really don't mind if they tweak the timing of things. They aren't going to have the show spread out over 1000's of years, as it wouldn't work for a TV show. As long as it make sense for the show, and helps to develope the story, I can live with some artistic license. I can understand where die hard fans are coming from, but with a TV show, it could never work, unless they make changes here and there.

What they should have done is either got the rights to a more manageable section the Legendarium, and done something with that, or left it alone. They don't have the talent to pull off what they are attempting, and it is a bad idea in concept. It's like the Hobbit made over three films - a terrible idea to begin with. Originally they were going to make The Hobbit alongside an additional project, which they could have made into 2-3 competent films. If The Hobbit had been good then the vast majortiy would have rolled with the changes, but it wasn't it was a mess, that they were clearly forced to extend beyonds its own slim tale by the studio. There's nunace to all this.

Right to adress "Die-Hard" fans - there are different degrees of people invested in the Lore , but it is only a tiny minority who can't handle any form of change, there's a far larger proportion of fans who can accept the requirements of a different medium, and who can accept some alterations IF the films are good. That's what happened with PJ's trilogy. It is true to the spirit of Tolkien, even if it alters Lore.

So it is not correct to lump all people invested in the Lore into one bucket of nerdlingers who scream because some events are changed. I can handle changes to LOTR because it is true to Tolkien and it is best film trilogy of all-time.

 

[casper_uk]

There's no need to be insulting just becaue you don't have anything substantive to say. So it's not really me who is all up in his feelings is it?

I'm perfectly calm because I know I am right about this show. It also wasn't me trying to stop others posting opinions, but you knew that...

Didn't realise I had insulted anyone. You didn't come across as calm and reasonable before, that is why I pointed it out. It is a TV show after all, not life and death. You are correct and right about the show in your opinion, nothing right or wrong about that. Just like I am correct, and right to say you are wrong about the show in my opinion. People's opinions on things like TV shows are subjective things Just like the two article pieces I posted agreed that the ring of power and house of the dragon are not the same type of TV shows, as they also have differing opinions to yourself.

I didn't stop anyone from trying to post opinions on the show. I also didn't "lump all people invested in the Lore into one bucket of nerdlingers who scream because some events are changed" at all. I just said I can see why some people don't like changes, but with a TV show, it would never work (who ever was in charge) without changes.

Finally! Something we agree on! The hobbit films are poo and the LOTR trilogy films are a masterpiece! Your still wrong about the show though

 

[Minusorange]

What was with the Warg that looked like the movie version Sonic that everybody complained about ?

I think if it wasn't LOTR and building on established lore I don't think I'd bother watching it so I can understand why people hate it

 

[Bigpig]

Has Celeborn turned up yet? No

Also a nice little thread on Fan baiting.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568182048564875265

 

[fez]

Has Celeborn turned up yet? No

Also a nice little thread on Fan baiting.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1568182048564875265

Yeah, this has been happening for years. Its a really weird aspect of social media as well. People love all the over the top sycophantic comments like "OMG, I just can't even, your portrayal of X gives me life and make me believe in the future of humanity" and then someone says "I didn't like the film and actor X wasn't very convincing as Y" and they lose their minds. Trolls, incels, toxic fans afoot!

When you put yourself out there on social media to get all the over the top ***** comments you have to accept that you will also get negative ones. Thats the nature of the game.

All the behaviours in that twitter thread have been beautifully displayed in here. Any criticism of bad writing, poor characterisation etc has been dismissed as misogyny etc.

 

[Rroff]

As mentioned before seen a lot of gatekeeping of negative opinions using the same key phrases built around "not a real Tolkien fan". It is interesting how much effort and resources will be put into defending a half-arsed product these days rather than doing a good job in the first place.

Also sad to see how many naive but well meaning people get caught up in it.

 

[Washout]

Yeah, this has been happening for years. Its a really weird aspect of social media as well. People love all the over the top sycophantic comments like "OMG, I just can't even, your portrayal of X gives me life and make me believe in the future of humanity" and then someone says "I didn't like the film and actor X wasn't very convincing as Y" and they lose their minds. Trolls, incels, toxic fans afoot!

When you put yourself out there on social media to get all the over the top ***** comments you have to accept that you will also get negative ones. Thats the nature of the game.

All the behaviours in that twitter thread have been beautifully displayed in here. Any criticism of bad writing, poor characterisation etc has been dismissed as misogyny etc.

For your first paragraph no-one in here has waxed lyrical about this show beyond saying it’s ‘pretty good so far’. That’s it.
Praise and criticism seem to be a pendulum that can swing both ways. The ott praise you describe isn’t happening here but the reverse is true. Simple example being page after page complaining Galadriel, commonly accepted as one of the most powerful people in ME happens to know how to fight. Omg Mary-sue, rage! Never mind the thousands of years she’s lived including through the worst wars ever seen. It’s an adaptation and showing her as a warrior and commander isn’t a far stretch given Tolkien’s own descriptions of her.
It’s far from butchering his works!

You can absolutely be critical of performances (but again, individuals appear to be going to extremes about some), pacing, directing, plot, sfx etc. Those are all opinions that are fair to have. But, making nit-picking complaints that when looked at don’t really stand up to scrutiny (durin having every right to be ****** at his best friend disappearing for 20 years) and are perfectly fine is just looking for issues where there isn’t any and those should be challenged, edit: or at the very least debated in Internet forums

 

[fez]

As mentioned before seen a lot of gatekeeping of negative opinions using the same key phrases built around "not a real Tolkien fan". It is interesting how much effort and resources will be put into defending a half-arsed product these days rather than doing a good job in the first place.

Also sad to see how many naive but well meaning people get caught up in it.

Its much much much easier to make a so so product and then lean heavily on marketing and manipulation than it is to make a good show. Even if you try really hard, you sometimes don't make a good show so Amazon are just covering their asses.

Like most LotR/Tolkien fans I was really excited for this. I wanted it to be good. Some aspects of it are really well done. Its just a shame that the core elements so far haven't be good. When you compare it to the LotR films it just suffers. They could have hired the best writers, the best actors and made an amazing series. Its a shame they didn't.

 

[fez]

For your first paragraph no-one in here has waxed lyrical about this show beyond saying it’s ‘pretty good so far’. That’s it.
Praise and criticism seem to be a pendulum that can swing both ways. The ott praise you describe isn’t happening here but the reverse is true.

I was talking in more general terms. Social media types are constantly complaining about negative comments they get amid a sea of OTT bootlicking comments.

Simple example being page after page complaining Galadriel, commonly accepted as one of the most powerful people in ME happens to know how to fight. Omg Mary-sue, rage! Never mind the thousands of years she’s lived including through the worst wars ever seen. It’s an adaptation and showing her as a warrior and commander isn’t a far stretch given Tolkien’s own descriptions of her.
It’s far from butchering his works!

The issue for some of us isn't Galadriel being a warrior, its casting a waif who doesn't sell it at all and then creating awfully done action scenes where she takes down a troll on her own in a horribly cheesy "cool guys don't look at explosions" way after her "elite unit" were getting tossed around like first day recruits. Its her being a largely unlikeable character who (like Durin) comes across as immature and a bit bratty despite being alive for thousands of years.

You can absolutely be critical of performances (but again, individuals appear to be going to extremes about some), pacing, directing, plot, sfx etc. Those are all opinions that are fair to have. But, making nit-picking complaints that when looked at don’t really stand up to scrutiny (durin having every right to be ****** at his best friend disappearing for 20 years) and are perfectly fine is just looking for issues where there isn’t any and those should be challenged.

Its all point of view. Thats what forums are for. Discussion of differing opinions. You are free to say you like it any I am free to say that I think it has serious issues. You don't have to have 10 glaring plot holes in a film to make it bad, you can have 20 minor ones that just leave you disappointed. Once you have started down the road of being disappointed it hard to come back as well. Things you might have ignored suddenly grate and you see issues everywhere.

I'm still watching it and honestly it will have to get far worse than it is now for me to stop. I love fantasy and I love LotR. I'm just disappointed with this so far.

 

[Mercenary Keyboard Warrior]

Not a bit interested in LOTR lore, I enjoyed the Fellowship trilogy and I'm enjoying this despite all the haters. It's not like the pace of the films was quick and the book certainly wasn't.

To be honest as a Tolkien fan, the books were a mess in general.
Tolkien broke most of the accepted "rules" in writing and thats quite apparent.

Outside die hard Tolkien fans I doubt 99%+ of the population would be interested in a faithful reproduction of any of his works than LOTR, and even then they would be struggling to include the bits that previously got cut, the "songs" and Tom B.
And yes I include the hobbit in that.
There is probably only one film studio that could actually do the Hobbit and that would be disney. But it certainly as a faithful reproduction wouldn't be the sort of film a die hard would want to watch.

 

[Rroff]

One of the things I always found remarkable about the LOTR movies, sadly less so with The Hobbit, was just how much everything matched how I'd imagined it would be from reading the books.