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adam cool dude said:
He really isn't. Poch bottled a league in France and the year Leicester won it too. ETH has been impeccable bar the season that has just gone. You do not become a rubbish manager over night. He has the second highest points total since Fergie left and he did it in his first season.

Yes he played more pragmatic football a bit like Ole did and when they both tried to play on the front foot. The players just cannot do it and collapsed
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"impeccable" just ignoring a whole season :cry:. He's been absolutely hopeless, has made you worse and spent an absolute load whilst doing it. The players you need to urgently replace he signed! It's fantastic to see dont get me wrong but he needs to be replaced.
 
To be fair to Poch, Chelsea finished the season relatively strongly and they were relying on the likes of Jackson to put the ball in the new for much of the season. Hes gone down in my estimations since he left Spurs but I don't think hes a bad manager. I just think hes shown that he isn't actually elite when you want to be at the sharp end of the game.
 
What a comical overreaction, refusing to watch if we hire Pochettino, yet calling Ten Hag impeccable while ignoring the fact he's just overseen the worst season in our recent history.

I don't even...
 
To be fair to Adam, he didn't say ETH was impeccable this season. Not sure why you feel the need to strawman him Robbo when he does a good enough job defeating himself in an argument most of the time.
 
Shamikebab said:
To be fair to Adam, he didn't say ETH was impeccable this season. Not sure why you feel the need to strawman him Robbo when he does a good enough job defeating himself in an argument most of the time.
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What was impeccable about his first season? Bearing in mind what the word means - faultless.

He won what is realistically a second rate trophy that nobody is really bothered about. Not a bad thing but not a big deal either.

Final league position was good, all things considered. Losing 7-0 to Liverpool was a huge low point - a result so bad that people have erased it from memory!

So yes, it was a decent enough season, but nothing more. He's since had a full year of coaching the players, and working out what to do. And now look where we are... this season has been a complete horror show.

Thankfully I am fairly confident INEOS just want the cup final out of the way, and he'll get his marching orders.
 
Robbo said:
What was impeccable about his first season? Bearing in mind what the word means - faultless.

He won what is realistically a second rate trophy that nobody is really bothered about. Not a bad thing but not a big deal either.

Final league position was good, all things considered. Losing 7-0 to Liverpool was a huge low point - a result so bad that people have erased it from memory!

So yes, it was a decent enough season, but nothing more. He's since had a full year of coaching the players, and working out what to do. And now look where we are... this season has been a complete horror show.

Thankfully I am fairly confident INEOS just want the cup final out of the way, and he'll get his marching orders.
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Not sure why you're asking me, I didn't say it lol.
 
Robbo said:
What was impeccable about his first season? Bearing in mind what the word means - faultless.

He won what is realistically a second rate trophy that nobody is really bothered about. Not a bad thing but not a big deal either.

Final league position was good, all things considered. Losing 7-0 to Liverpool was a huge low point - a result so bad that people have erased it from memory!

So yes, it was a decent enough season, but nothing more. He's since had a full year of coaching the players, and working out what to do. And now look where we are... this season has been a complete horror show.

Thankfully I am fairly confident INEOS just want the cup final out of the way, and he'll get his marching orders.
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I was talking about his general career trajectory. Not just his time at Manchester United. Poch is a failed manager really. He underachieved with Spurs and won nothing. He lost a championship in a French League which is a 1 horse race. He has also done no better than Potter at Chelsea really.

Robbo said:
What a comical overreaction, refusing to watch if we hire Pochettino, yet calling Ten Hag impeccable while ignoring the fact he's just overseen the worst season in our recent history.

I don't even...
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It is not the appointment of Poch himself that bothers me. It is the general way of the club is being run. Poch is 0 upgrade over ETH. He is inferior when looking at their total body of work. With new owners you want to make a statement which this isn't.

Yes we have had a stinker of a season. Arteta finished 8th two seasons running!

I still believe ETH has what it takes but he needs to be given the support by the people around him.

I also cannot believe that the injury situations have just been brushed under the carpet like nothing. Klopp a top elite manager struggled last season and that was from a club position a lot higher than United.
 
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Ten Hag's experience is primarily with Ajax though, and he did well there, but they are the biggest team in that league. Yes I appreciate they hadn't won it in prior seasons, but turning them around is hardly an underdog story that points to greatness.

PSG are a mess really so I wouldn't write Poch off on that basis - he did win the 21/22 season by a big margin. I think he's finished quite strongly in a very difficult environment at Chelsea, and his Spurs side were never likely to win much as it's Spurs!

The reality is we don't really know how the club is being run in any detail. INEOS appear to be attempting to install the best people possible at every position in the club. I think they'll consider ETH a failure and want their own manager - it may be someone from left field, a bit like Liverpool with Slot.
 
Robbo said:
Ten Hag's experience is primarily with Ajax though, and he did well there, but they are the biggest team in that league. Yes I appreciate they hadn't won it in prior seasons, but turning them around is hardly an underdog story that points to greatness.

PSG are a mess really so I wouldn't write Poch off on that basis - he did win the 21/22 season by a big margin. I think he's finished quite strongly in a very difficult environment at Chelsea, and his Spurs side were never likely to win much as it's Spurs!

The reality is we don't really know how the club is being run in any detail. INEOS appear to be attempting to install the best people possible at every position in the club. I think they'll consider ETH a failure and want their own manager - it may be someone from left field, a bit like Liverpool with Slot.
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Ajax were okay before he took over and irrelevant in Europe. They certainly were not winning dutch titles every season. Also the Dutch team he managed before Ajax, Utrecht were finishing 10th and 11th in the previous seasons to when he took over then finished 5th and 4th whilst he was there and also got to a cup final. He won the league and cup double 2 out of 3 full seasons he was at Ajax finishing runner up in the cup on 1 occasion but winning the league in all 3. Quickest Ajax manager to 100 wins with 73% win percentage over his career there and to think of the amazing Ajax managers that have come before him.

Poch has none of that really. Poch's Spurs side was incredibly strong actually when you look back it. All this nonsense that they were underdogs was just because it was Spurs. Most of that team have played in Champions League and World Cup finals looking back on them. They bottled the 15/16 season Leicester won it big time.

ETH has had to deal with so much rubbish since he has arrived at United. It has been an uphill struggle since day 1. This club ruins managers. Jose has never recovered from it yet his 81 point season whilst only conceding 29 goals is not far off what Arteta has done this season with Arsenal but just like always the United players threw him under the bus.
 
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I really want EtH to succeed at United and occasionally I think he should be given another season. Clear out the deadwood. Get rid of players who don't want to work for the club and sign some quality youngsters. I just can't get behind that when I think with my head after the current season. I don't know if his slight change of tact right at the end of the season shows he is willing to adapt or he just got desperate.

Football manager is one of the hardest jobs out there as evidenced by how little time most managers spend in a job. The merry-go-round of a small group of managers that seem to flit between all the top clubs for a year or two before moving on.

Every club wants to win things but only a few each year can and with the money involved, when you don't deliver you are often pushed out. Will Arsenal stay with Arteta if he doesn't deliver a trophy next season or will they take a punt on someone else. Will Pep leave and City drop a level. Will Liverpool struggle for years now?
 
Ajax have won 36 Dutch titles, 11 more than 2nd place PSV and yet you could be mistaken in thinking they were some sort of minnows reading your post Adam.

Ajax are by a distance the biggest side in Holland. Yes they will have had the odd season when they weren't at the top but their size and resources, relative to their competition, will mean they will almost always be in the top 2 spots. It's not so much an achievement for them to be at the top but a disaster when they're not.
 
BaZ87 said:
Ajax have won 36 Dutch titles, 11 more than 2nd place PSV and yet you could be mistaken in thinking they were some sort of minnows reading your post Adam.

Ajax are by a distance the biggest side in Holland. Yes they will have had the odd season when they weren't at the top but their size and resources, relative to their competition, will mean they will almost always be in the top 2 spots. It's not so much an achievement for them to be at the top but a disaster when they're not.
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Ajax had failed to win the league the 4 previous seasons to him winning 3 on the bounce and since he has gone they have fallen off a cliff as well. To say they were the dominant force in the Dutch league at the time is nonsense. They were also irrelevant in Europe for a long time until he came along.

Man Utd are the biggest side in the English league but have been irrelevant for over a decade now so I don't see how Ajax being the biggest Dutch club makes any difference to their recent success or lack of it when ETH wasn't there. If you take out ETH league wins Ajax have won the title 1 time in the last ten years!
 
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Robbo said:
Ten Hag's experience is primarily with Ajax though, and he did well there, but they are the biggest team in that league. Yes I appreciate they hadn't won it in prior seasons, but turning them around is hardly an underdog story that points to greatness
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Ten Hag was less successful at Ajax than Frank de Boer was.

Frank de Boer remains statistically the worst manager in Premier League history
 
adam cool dude said:
Ajax had failed to win the league the 4 previous seasons to him winning 3 on the bounce and since he has gone they have fallen off a cliff as well. To say they were the dominant force in the Dutch league at the time is nonsense. They were also irrelevant in Europe for a long time until he came along.

Man Utd are the biggest side in the English league but have been irrelevant for over a decade now so I don't see how Ajax being the biggest Dutch club makes any difference to their recent success or lack of it when ETH wasn't there.
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I didn't say they were the dominant force, I said they're the biggest club in Holland and will almost always be in the top 1-2 positions. Prior to ETH's arrival, other than one 3rd place finish, they didn't finish below 2nd since 2006. Ajax winning the League isn't a massive achievement. The comparison to Utd is a nonsense - Ajax have consistently been at the top of the table, whereas Utd have been bouncing around between 7th (8th now) and 2nd for 10 years.
 
BaZ87 said:
I didn't say they were the dominant force, I said they're the biggest club in Holland and will almost always be in the top 1-2 positions. Prior to ETH's arrival, other than one 3rd place finish, they didn't finish below 2nd since 2006. Ajax winning the League isn't a massive achievement. The comparison to Utd is a nonsense - Ajax have consistently been at the top of the table, whereas Utd have been bouncing around between 7th (8th now) and 2nd for 10 years.
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That is mainly because the Dutch league has only 3 really big teams. Ajax, PSV and Feyenoord so even a bad season for those teams will be 1-3 for the most part. Premier League is not the same.
 
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