**The Mental Health Thread**

Nitefly said:
I’m in a very good place at the moment, better than I have been in years. A few observations of myself, which may be helpful for others... not sure!

I accept that there will always be a suite of completely contradictory truths in my life. Rather than viewing this as my life being in disorder, I just accept that it’s different parts of me voicing different things and really there is a whole chorus of voices, none of them knowing what is actually best for me... so it’s all just down to making choices.

Broadly speaking, I chose to enjoy my choices. I have historically found that whatever choices I make, I would always pine for the benefits of the alternative - making myself dissatisfied with all options. In other words, I have dropped needless pining and accepted that all paths have pros and cons. Only by dropping that mentality have I found that I can genuinely enjoy (without effort) the whopping great big pros in my life.

I have stopped wanting everything all of the time. A lot of dissatisfaction has stemmed from wanting to control and have everything I could ever want; mostly sexually (a common problem with men) but also materially and in terms of general ‘control’. It’s really a very childish behaviour, even if it ties in with adult desires.

I’ve accepted that even in a perfect world with everything in order, there will always be some element of dissatisfaction or anxiety. Worrying and solving problems gives me a purpose so there is part of me that is always going to seek out issues when really there are none, but there are merely different paths. Having different paths is not an inherent problem.

Sometimes you just have to say “**** it”. Living life as a perfectionist is a miserable life. Nobody and nothing is perfect. Stop trying to be a god because you will end up crushed with the responsibilities and diligence of a god. Being a perfectionist is really quite detrimental and in many ways childish.

As a result of accepting the above, I feel like I’ve stopped ‘frantically bumping into things desperately trying to make myself happy’, have actually grown and become far more satisfied with myself. It’s funny that by keeping your extremities and anxieties in-check, you can actually look up and see how great the big picture actually is.


What do you do?
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Nitefly said:
Well, there’s a few things to bear in mind:

Worrying about things that haven’t happened (or the consequences of things that have happened, but the subsequences have not fully resolved) gives you the full experience of the bad thing (or the ‘bad consequence’) actually happening... without it actually happening. It’s like ghosts; being scared of them gives you the full terrifying experience that ghosts are actually real, when they are not. Remind yourself that it’s completely wasted energy and ridiculous.

Anxiety is often like romantic obsession. You have an emotional feedback loop (worry/love) that keeps reliving itself and won’t end, either because it’s satiating or otherwise addictive. I don’t mean to be dismissive, but you do have to sort of shut that process down and say “this is a feedback loop”. I find that if I deliberately act as if there isn’t a problem, the obsessive / repetitive feedback loop is interrupted and suddenly... there isn’t a problem (or more accurately, it goes back to proportion). How ridiculous that such agony can be cured by what is effectively a ‘glitch correction / restart’!! Have a think about how you would act if you weren’t worried, then brazenly act that way. Try not to think about it to much - see if there’s a difference.... or don’t, as when you stop worrying, you won’t notice that you have. But we all worry a bit from time to time, no biggy.

Similarly, the most stupid thing with these problems is that being aware of them tends to make them worse. A ridiculous thing I have done in recent times is wake up and worry that I will feel anxious. I mean, how arse backwards is that?! If you keep checking your ‘emotional barometer’ you give it a disproportionate power over yourself. So you really do have to force yourself to just ‘get on with it’. That’s not being dismissive, it’s just a genuine solution to being paralysed by worrying.

Just.... **** it. Let go. You can’t control everything. You’re not a god. Let the chaos unfold!! It’s really rather liberating. Bring it on, mwahhaha!

Just some thoughts to chew on :)
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Fantastic couple of posts there @Nitefly - appreciate your thoughts. I follow similar thought patterns (as we all do) but it's refreshing to hear someone put it so succintly.

Is this philosophy something you've come to accept yourself, or are you actively reading/learning any stoicism works, as this seems to be bang on the money?!
 
@Nitefly thank you, reading that put some things into perspective especially about not being able to control everything. Essentially I'm awaiting some medical appointments that will have a large influence on my future in my career and have been told that it can take up to a year. Trying to keep from constantly thinking about it has been a but of a challenge recently.
 
wingman said:
Fantastic couple of posts there @Nitefly - appreciate your thoughts. I follow similar thought patterns (as we all do) but it's refreshing to hear someone put it so succintly.

Is this philosophy something you've come to accept yourself, or are you actively reading/learning any stoicism works, as this seems to be bang on the money?!
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Have had this thread open in a tab for 2 days as I've been wanting to say the same @Nitefly

It's so remarkably accurate and clearly put, I'm considering printing it out and sticking it somewhere very visible. Thanks :)
 
I’m a bit taken aback... Cheers for the kind words!!

I hasten to add, I’m certainly not any sort of role model as I definitely do not always practice what I ‘preach’! But, nevertheless, my ‘current philosophy(-ies)’ are the result of a long period of bona fide growth and I do feel quite triumphant in conquering (or being more aware of) some of my inherently self-destructive tendencies that have quietly dominated my life, which I do feel like I have (mostly) grown out of.... although they do niggle at me from time to time, to which I (mostly) acknowledge and respond to them with: “oh, you!”

(I feel the need to clarify that when I say “self-destructive tendencies”, I’m really referring to the good-natured but ultimately poor way I would react and process my own emotions / thoughts.)

To answer a question asked by @wingman There have been a couple of influencers. Firstly, I had counselling, which provided an initial platform for becoming more aware of my emotions / behaviours. Then, I read part of an exceptionally heavy book (which I will not name because I feel like it could be a destructive read without professional support) whilst also flirting with mindfulness exercises and a single self-help book (the rules for life book recently released by Jordan Peterson, which I do think is very good in terms of general “life approach” but it won’t address the way you think). Also, believe it or not there is a very emotive video game called Celeste, which I really do think that everyone suffering from anxiety should play as it hits some key nails on the head beautifully... even poetically.

But really... I’ve sort of taken what I like and left what I don’t from all of that and come up with my own way of doing it all, which works for me. I can say that from my perspective, there are obvious downsides to all of the things I’ve mentioned:

Mindfulness: excellent for breaking the aforementioned feedback loops, but no focus at all on personal growth or how you process your emotions.

Counselling: makes you aware of yourself and starts you on a growth journey, but sort of underplays / ignores the idea of ‘feedback loops’ and inadvertently encourages unhelpful navel-gazing. I found that my counsellor, whilst in many ways excellent, did make me think of myself as an ‘intellectual puzzle to be solve’ / ‘a knot to be unpicked if only I could find the right strand to pick at’... which I think is actually unhelpful and best avoided. That’s probably the result of me being professional ‘problem solver’ (literally).

Self-help books: good general philosophy but somewhat impersonal and ignores the pros of the other two.

It’s really, really hard to just talk about it in snippets because it all has to be taken together as a whole.... I’ve actually thought about trying to write it all down in a book, for my children one day (as I have SOOOOOO MUCH TO SAY) but I then thought that might be a little self-important and narcissistic... just like this post :o :p

I will add some additional thoughts of self-discovery though, just in case it’s helpful / relatable:

I realised that I have been fairy constantly dissatisfied with my life because I have taken very quiet shelter “in fantasy”. No, I don’t mean LARP-ing!! You would never know, but I would often be quite withdrawn, having daydreams where everything is perfect and there are no imperfections. Despite never being consciously aware of it, I was quite happy to quietly live that way in my mind, lazily and without challenge or scrutiny, free from having to make decisions and having the luxury of having everything all at once... whilst merely tolerating my comparative mundane and (therefore inevitably) disappointing life. I would ‘coast along’ without truly enjoying anything because nothing could ever meet my own expectations. Most notably, I’d also very much struggle to be truly intimate romantically, or sexually satisfied. I would therefore have a cycle of getting into relationships, feeling caged/dissatisfied, and spontaneously ending them because “I was not happy”. Better luck next time, hmm? What prompted me seeking counselling was identifying that nothing could ever make me ‘happy’, even in a loving relationship. Despite having everything, money, a partner, dozens of friends... I even found myself being suicidal! :eek:

I now know that this ‘comfort in fantasy / distraction / brain pleasure’ way of coping was a terrible, terrible way of living my life. Living this way, IMO, is not too dissimilar from a life on heroin, over-eating, living through gambling or pornography (and I really think that last one is an absolute global disaster for mental health). It’s not obvious but living in fantasy, whatever those fantasises are, is simply a bona fide addiction. All of the above are distractions from the real and what is going on outside the walls of your head.

The below video is taken from another video game and very much highlights the ‘dangers’ of what I’m talking about, although I certainly never experienced anything as dramatic as this. Be warned though it may be a little provocative as it is sad / tragic.


^ don’t be that guy!!

I now know that life, and specifically relationships, is very much like opting to look after a garden. Life and relationships require WORK... life requires courage, not mere hope! Hoping one day to be happy makes you ****ing hopeless, whilst true courage makes you invincible!! And you must chose to be courageous. You must also chose for your relationship to work. Even the most beautiful gardens require energy and work or they will fall into disrepair. Bizarrely, the more I realised all of this, the less ‘work’ it all became and the more I started to live, let go of my emotional dependencies/chains, and actually genuinely enjoy my life... whilst not making any dramatic changes to my everyday circumstances, which is something that I would never have thought was possible.

Again, it’s really hard to say everything I want to and I don’t want to bore you all to death... I know it’s a little cheesy but there is one good quip I’ll end on (from counselling). If you’re anything like me, life is somewhat akin to trying to get to a treasure in a cave. You pine after that treasure... but it’s being guarded by a big ****-off dragon. No matter which way you run and try sneak to sneak passed the dragon (i.e. no matter your life choices, no matter your relationships and however much energy you put into your hobbies), that dragon will always turn its head and follow you with a smile. It’s a completely, hopeless, unfair and un-winnable situation. The dragon will always own you so long as you try and sneak passed it.

The answer to the puzzle is that there is only one real way to ‘beat the dragon’ and get to the treasure... and that’s dealing with it the only way you haven’t tried... by jumping out from the rocks you were hiding behind and taking on the dragon!!! (i.e. actually challenge / work on yourself / grow). If the game of life feels totally unwinnable, you really do need to ‘think outside the box’ and change the rules (in my case, how I processed my thoughts and emotions).

Apologies for my self-indulgent waffle - and really, just stick with what I said already if that works better for you and consider what I just wrote a load of rubbish *thumbs-up* :D

Edit - I’ll also add that the above does not supersede / replace anything I previously said, nor is it more important. It has to be taken as a whole, IMHO, and it’s only my 2 pennies.
 
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Any recommendations for getting some relief from AD withdrawal, specifically dizzyness please?

My GP wants me off Paroxetine and I’ve been tapering from 30 down to nothing

Week 1 was down to 20, no real problems
Week 2 was down to 10, stomach problems and the most horrendous dizzyness

It feels like I’m in a boat 24/7, if my head moves the room starts spinning so I’m currently just sat here with my head pinned to the couch :(

Feels like I’m withdrawing too fast, I’m supposed to be cold turkey as of tomorrow god knows what I’m going to be like.
 
well, she uttered the words ive been dreading to hear. seperation. (trial seperation - although not sure there is really a difference?) makes it worse at it was over message while im at work.
i feel sick.
 
joelk2 said:
gotta talk with her tonight about it all. im not sure shes thought about the financial implications, married, mortgaged & we've also got 2 girls which is the bit that makes me so upset. they are my life!
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Just some random thoughts from a stranger, hopefully can help. Could be completely wrong advice but my initial thoughts reading those your last 2 posts.

She texted a breakup while you're at work, and not just a girlfriend, but your wife. Pretty sure you wouldn't do that to her, you would at least talk face to face, right? Very cold hearted by her with terrible timing, not considering your feelings at all.

She left you with utter mental anguish and expects you to still work that day? I'm detecting some selfishness issues from your wife.

At the moment very few relationships are going totally smoothly due to covid19, many on the verge of breakup, if you can talk to her I'd focus on that a bit in terms of this being a very bad time to make decisions like that. Most of the country are going through some kind of covid 19 depression at the moment whether they realise it or not. I suspect she is too.

Does she really want to rip apart your family in the midst of all this? Give your girls even more upheaval? My take would be trying to hold it together at least until the covid19 crisis has blown over.

Texting at work like that was lowly from a wife and mother of your kids. It'll be so difficult to keep your cool but if you can, you'll come off so much better, I think you need to stay calm but don't just take anything lying down.
 
PC777 said:
Just some random thoughts from a stranger, hopefully can help. Could be completely wrong advice but my initial thoughts reading those your last 2 posts.

She texted a breakup while you're at work, and not just a girlfriend, but your wife. Pretty sure you wouldn't do that to her, you would at least talk face to face, right? Very cold hearted by her with terrible timing, not considering your feelings at all.

She left you with utter mental anguish and expects you to still work that day? I'm detecting some selfishness issues from your wife.

At the moment very few relationships are going totally smoothly due to covid19, many on the verge of breakup, if you can talk to her I'd focus on that a bit in terms of this being a very bad time to make decisions like that. Most of the country are going through some kind of covid 19 depression at the moment whether they realise it or not. I suspect she is too.

Does she really want to rip apart your family in the midst of all this? Give your girls even more upheaval? My take would be trying to hold it together at least until the covid19 crisis has blown over.

Texting at work like that was lowly from a wife and mother of your kids. It'll be so difficult to keep your cool but if you can, you'll come off so much better, I think you need to stay calm but don't just take anything lying down.
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im a cool headed person and always calm so i have no issues with keeping cool, emotionally i will lose it though.
ive suggested councelling a few times to her (when she would speak to me over the last 2 months) but she doesnt seem open to the idea. she just wants her own space and her heart isnt in the relationsihp anymore.

i want to keep it all amicable for the cihldrens sake as it will be hard enough on them anyways.

renting a place close by was her words, this doesnt sound very trial in my books, it seems more permanent as it would need furnishing and a contract of say 6/12 months.
my only thought is that shes still wanting me to pay towards the running of the house/mortgage which i couldnt do if renting another place.

i think we're going to need some advice legally on the financial side of things but thats a whole different conversation.

i wouldnt have done the same to her no, but then im still madly in love with the woman. i just didnt expect a message to be the form of communcation for that type of thing. ive been trying to get her to talk to me for months.
 
Things are going well currently.

Applying for our first house, jobs going well albeit been working remotely since before lockdown, so lack of seeing people sometimes creeps up.

Other than that, I'm not too bad I guess :)
 
joelk2 said:
im a cool headed person and always calm so i have no issues with keeping cool, emotionally i will lose it though.
ive suggested councelling a few times to her (when she would speak to me over the last 2 months) but she doesnt seem open to the idea. she just wants her own space and her heart isnt in the relationsihp anymore.

i want to keep it all amicable for the cihldrens sake as it will be hard enough on them anyways.

renting a place close by was her words, this doesnt sound very trial in my books, it seems more permanent as it would need furnishing and a contract of say 6/12 months.
my only thought is that shes still wanting me to pay towards the running of the house/mortgage which i couldnt do if renting another place.

i think we're going to need some advice legally on the financial side of things but thats a whole different conversation.

i wouldnt have done the same to her no, but then im still madly in love with the woman. i just didnt expect a message to be the form of communcation for that type of thing. ive been trying to get her to talk to me for months.
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So the 'trial' separation would mean you leaving your kids, moving out to a small flat and having to pay for two places that you can't afford.

All in the midst of an unprecedented health and financial crisis. Her 'happiness' is what counts to her right now I guess.

That and the caring so little to text you a break up, maybe she's not the woman you thought she was, or she's majorly depressed herself.

Best of luck man, I really hope you can work something out.
 
PC777 said:
So the 'trial' separation would mean you leaving your kids, moving out to a small flat and having to pay for two places that you can't afford.

All in the midst of an unprecedented health and financial crisis. Her 'happiness' is what counts to her right now I guess.

That and the caring so little to text you a break up, maybe she's not the woman you thought she was, or she's majorly depressed herself.

Best of luck man, I really hope you can work something out.
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thanks for your support,

thats how it seems but im not sure how shes thinking it will work. i guess ill find out later when i speak to her.

she couldnt afford to run the house without circa 1k coming from somewhere. the child maintenance payments work out to be 400 ish so even if i gave her 500 she would be 500 short (unless that universal credit thing would be that much) which would let her pay all the bills and have some left to take kids places etc..

500 from me is manageable. i have no ideas about the running cost of say a 2bed flat for 1 person but as an estimate ive done my workings out on the below.

rent - 700
council tax - 105
water - 30
gas & electric - 60
contents insurance - 20
internet - 30
any other things needed.

basically around 1k a month.

with things such as loan, credit card, petrol, child maintenace. i would be left with around 250 a month to feed myself (and the kids when they are around) plus general monthly spending or taking kids places.
 
Ayahuasca said:
Might wanna lawyer up because if she does go for it then you’ll be paying more than 500 a month.
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i think that would be at a detriment to her and the kids though as it would force her to have to sell the house as she couldnt afford to buy me out. i trust that shes going to keep amicable throughout this (at least thats how her message reads) shes said im not a bad person and am a great day but she just likes her own space/company - seems to be the classic, its not you its me just worded differenlty.
 
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