* The Metal Thread *

oL said:
The vocals in that Frantic Bleep song do sound like great clean vocals indeed :) But how do you define good vocals that are not clean?
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Not sure myself, haha! Mostly it comes down to personal taste, but for me it's a question of how well it goes with the music. Good harsh vocals will be powerful and dynamic with soaring screams and low guttural growls when the music calls for it. They will accentuate the music, weaving above and below the main instrumentals, leading it where necessary but without becoming too detached. Some examples of non clean vocals that I like:










Some of these are slow songs and the vocals will be suitably laid back, but when the music starts to get intense the vocals will follow. Also, the youtube sound quality doesn't do the vocals any justice - the vocals on that ISIS track sound absolutely brutal on good sound system.
 
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titaniumx3 said:
Not sure myself, haha! Mostly it comes down to personal taste, but for me it's a question of how well it goes with the music. Good harsh vocals will be powerful and dynamic with soaring screams and low guttural growls when the music calls for it. They will accentuate the music, weaving above and below the main instrumentals, leading it where necessary but without becoming too detached. Some examples of non clean vocals that I like:

Some of these are slow songs and the vocals will be suitably laid back, but when the music starts to get intense the vocals will follow. Also, the youtube sound quality doesn't do the vocals any justice - the vocals on that ISIS track sound absolutely brutal on good sound system.
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Yes I see what you mean, those all have good vocals also. I have most of them. Although they are more on the growly side, I still like them, because they go with the music well.

Some examples of my favorite type of vocals:


You might have guessed that I love Meshuggah :):) but the vocals are too good of an example in those songs.
 
titaniumx3 said:
Not sure myself, haha! Mostly it comes down to personal taste, but for me it's a question of how well it goes with the music. Good harsh vocals will be powerful and dynamic with soaring screams and low guttural growls when the music calls for it. They will accentuate the music, weaving above and below the main instrumentals, leading it where necessary but without becoming too detached. Some examples of non clean vocals that I like:










Some of these are slow songs and the vocals will be suitably laid back, but when the music starts to get intense the vocals will follow. Also, the youtube sound quality doesn't do the vocals any justice - the vocals on that ISIS track sound absolutely brutal on good sound system.
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My Dying Bride I like. Opeth, Ahab, Isis, Rosetta and Agalloch I listen to already.

Reminded me of the new Draconian album 'A rose for the Acopalypse'

 
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Dimple said:
Are they not one of the worlds biggest rock bands along with Iron Mayden, AKDC and Kis?
And yes they are a rock band, put a genre label on them all you want but they are a rock band.
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I hope those mistakes are on purpose, btw, only AC/DC can be considered a "rock" band

Iron Maiden and Metallica are heavy metal
Kiss are glam or hair metal
 
Jay794 said:
I hope those mistakes are on purpose, btw, only AC/DC can be considered a "rock" band

Iron Maiden and Metallica are heavy metal
Kiss are glam or hair metal
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They are all rock bands - put them under what sub genre you want if it satisfies your label making.

(and yes, labelling them rock has put them into a genre)

Oh and if you want to sub genre then Metallica were/are thrash.
The very first band ever to be labelled Heavy Metal were Led Zeppelin - not a joke.
 
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Dimple said:
They are all rock bands - put them under what sub genre you want if it satisfies your label making.

(and yes, labelling them rock has put them into a genre)

Oh and if you want to sub genre then Metallica were thrash.
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Rock and Metal are different genres, metal is not a sub-genre of rock, thrash IS a sub-genre of metal
 
Jay794 said:
Rock and Metal are different genres, metal is not a sub-genre of rock, thrash IS a sub-genre of metal
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Stop being silly.

Go on then lets play this silly game.
What is rock and what is metal?

We know that Zeppelin are metal and ACDC are rock.
In your fantasy world what are:

Black Sabbath
Deep Purple
Budgie
UFO
Hendrix
Rush
Slayer
The Wildhearts
The Darkness
Slade
Children Of Bodom
T.Rex
Anthrax
Saxon
Diamond Head
 
Ok, if we HAVE to get into this now....

Dimple said:
Stop being silly.

Black Sabbath - Heavy Metal
Deep Purple - Technically rock, but pioneer in heavy metal
Budgie - Never heard their stuff
UFO - Only heard Doctor, Doctor
Hendrix - Rock
Rush - Never heard their stuff
Slayer - Thrash Metal
The Wildhearts - Rock
The Darkness - Crap Rock
Slade - Rock
Children Of Bodom - Heavy Metal
T.Rex - Never heard their stuff
Anthrax - Heavy Metal
Saxon - Heavy Metal
Diamond Head - Heavy Metal
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Ok?
 
I'd like to apologise on behalf of people my age that in the early 70s we took what were rock bands and tried to label them into sub genres because there were 'differences'.
I wasn't content to call the likes of Judas Priest a rock band but called them a metal band instead and I apologise.
I remember at one of the very first Motorhead concerts the audience were divided into Teddy Boys, Punks and Rockers and nobody knew what they really were but good old sub genres came into play and we called them Metal.

They are all rock bands, sub genre what you want.
 
Agree to disagree, BIG DIFFERENCE between a "rock band" and a "metal band"

Pretty sure Rob Flynn would love it if you said he played in a rock band lol
 
You really want me to list the differences?! Isn't it obvious? Just look at Slayer and The Darkness (I'll use 2 bands you listed)

Slayer
1. Never been in the charts or had a number one single
2. Look of the band - Long hair/no hair, tattoos, pericings
3. Controversial lyrics about death, war, religion
4. Crazy fast guitar solos
5. Shouty and screaming vocals

Should I mention the moshpits?

The Darkness
1. Been in the charts
2. Slightly cleaner looking people
3. No lyrics about death, war, religion
4. No crazy guitar solos
5. No shouty/screaming vocals

The lack of moshpits?
 
Jay794 said:
You really want me to list the differences?! Isn't it obvious? Just look at Slayer and The Darkness (I'll use 2 bands you listed)

Slayer
1. Never been in the charts or had a number one single They have been in the charts http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slayer_discography
2. Look of the band - Long hair/no hair, tattoos, pericings The Darkness have long/short hair and tattoos
3. Controversial lyrics about death, war, religion Without going into depth I'm sure The Darkness have touched on stuff besides shagging
4. Crazy fast guitar solos Justin is an excellent soloist and so is his brother and can be crazy
5. Shouty and screaming vocals I think Justin has the edge here with screamy vocals, Tom basically sings normal which is why Slayer are my favourite band, if they had screamy vocals I wouldn't like them as much

Should I mention the moshpits? I can guarantee that when The Darkness played The Sugamill there was a moshpit I had to get out of.
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I mean't single charts dude, hardly likely to see Slayer on the top 10 list between Rhianna and Beiber lol, put it this way, put the 2 bands on 2 stages at Download and look at the type of people that go see them.

Rock and Metal might have some similarities, but they are very different genres.

Lol I just read the screamy vocals bit you said, all I can think of is Araya's live intro to War Ensemble......WAAAAAAARR!!!!
 
The way I see it is 2 different generations and how things are viewed.

My chronology isn't the best, but i'm sure when Dimple was growing up, metal didn't exist, or was very very young. As such, he's grown up with Rock music, and watched metal grow out of that and therefore it's a sub-genre to him.

For Jay, he's the same age as me, and so when growing up, metal was already established with many huge bands being put under that genre, so it's quite weird to see it as a sub-genre.

With metal having so many sub-genres of it's own now, it's basically big enough to be classed as it's own genre, despite its origin being rock.
 
Creature said:
The way I see it is 2 different generations and how things are viewed.

My chronology isn't the best, but i'm sure when Dimple was growing up, metal didn't exist, or was very very young. As such, he's grown up with Rock music, and watched metal grow out of that and therefore it's a sub-genre to him.

For Jay, he's the same age as me, and so when growing up, metal was already established with many huge bands being put under that genre, so it's quite weird to see it as a sub-genre.

With metal having so many sub-genres of it's own now, it's basically big enough to be classed as it's own genre, despite its origin being rock.
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+1 That sounds logical

However, depending how far back you trace metals roots, it goes back before rock, to jazz. Have you seen Headbangers Journey?
 
I take this one step further actually. It has nothing to do with the origin of a musical label, but more to do with the direction the label has headed in and arrived.

When I label bands I use their real labels as far as possible.

For instance:

Melodic Death Metal
Thrash Metal
Nu Metal
Funeral Doom
Prog Metal
Power Metal

etc etc etc

Who cares if metal once originated out of rock. They dont sound the same now, and have even fragmented in to sub generes so the origin becomes even less important.

And having this discussion is out side of the thread. Create a new thread if you want to 'Thrash' this one out. (Pun intended)
 
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Dimple said:
It made me laugh that you can't spell the name of the worlds biggest rock band.
Anyway, it is not Metallica's latest album, it is an album they play on because they were asked to do so by Lou Reed and are probably regretting it every day.
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But to begin with this was unneccessary to correct me on my spelling.

Come on I was a massive Metallica fan back in the day. But they are total shizer now.

I didnt originally reply because it was petty and not what the thread was discussing.
 
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